Monty, it really looks like Talansky has some potential even though this thread beats up on him in general. The swim was solid and only 3:07 behind Frodo. This alone tells me has the engine to compete at the level needed. He's a former pro biker and once he figures out the swim-bike transition such that the swim does not affect his bike, you have to assume he can minimally ride with Lionel and Frodo. I don't know if the 1:36 run was just from overbiking, or if was a calorie management thing. Does anyone know what his open 5k time is. Is this guy a sub 16 min 5k guy (I would assume he is simply by the way he can climb hills on the protour and power to weight is a good proxy for run potential, the question is what are his biomechanics like).

It the guy is a 25min 1900m swimmer today, former protour rider and say a 15:30 5K guy, he should be able to make a living off this. I would have him spend his time on a bunch of sprints and olympic tris racing as often as possible for a while. The guy needs racing experience at full throttle short course. If he's on the development plan then that's where he will get the most experience and fine tune his speed and transitions. He lost almost 2 min to Frodo on transtions which starts getting close to his 3 min lost during the swim. You can't lose that much time in the Tzone as a pro.

 Does anyone know what his open 5k time is. Is this guy a sub 16 min 5k guy (I would assume he is simply by the way he can climb hills on the protour and power to weight is a good proxy for run potential, the question is what are his biomechanics like).

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I believe listening to him on some podcast his HS years we’re mid 17 and always injured. Eh above average but nothing spectacular. Of course HS running with potentially below avg coaching may or may not be true potential.

But he didn’t turn heads simply based on his comments.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I agree Dev. It isnt like this guy was coming from the ITU world. He’s a triathlon rookie. Think about what rookies do in other sports (sports they have been playing or competing in their whole lives). You can criticize the run result but I think the Swim result was surprisingly good (maybe he overswam but it at least shows potential). I don’t buy for a minute that he was “smashing” the bike at least for what he would consider smashing the bike.

Monty, it really looks like Talansky has some potential even though this thread beats up on him in general. //

I dont think there has been a single person that hasn't said he has potential. And no one is beating up on him at all, just commenting on the fact that he didn't really have a pro race in his first outing. In fact it has been the opposite, about half the people that thought his potential would be realized at this race now have to step back and reevaluate. He had everyone rooting for him, some expecting he would smash the bike(as compared to the triathletes) and have a shot at top 5, or 10.


I was a lot more cautious in my predictions for him, he came about where I thought he would, and rode just about exactly what I said he would. Like I said, his swim was good but took a lot out of him it looks like. He needs to get on the Sanders swim program now, so that he isn't out of a race before it hits the land portion..

3:07 sounds like a pretty decent gap, sort of expecting that a bit more than him losing 5 minutes on the bike. He'll get better, just not sure how he'll factor into the mix with the heads of states.

Funny enough, he is. They are both on the Tower 26 subscription program.

Put him on the Sanders swim plan and a bunch of sprint and Olympic tris to first get his 5K and 10K down and then come back to half IM racing and I think the guy will be set provided that he is a mid 15 min 5K runner.

The guy is listed at 175cm, 63 kilos. This is barely 5'9" and 139 lbs. I actually think he is too small to smash the bike course in a non drafting triathlon bike. Almost no guys this small do fast bike splits off a fast swim. Lange is the notable exception and he gets gapped on the bike while riding at 4W per kilo. Talansky has the right body composition to actually run really fast and his climbing stats on the protour suggest his runs can get fast.

I put him the category of solid swim, loses time IN EVERY BIKE SPLIT TO THE TRIATHLON UBER BIKERS. and then runs reasonably fast once he gets his running legs. I think he is too small to be fast triathlon biker. There are almost ZERO triathlon bikers who are that small who lead on the bike, but that's a great size of protour riding. It's a different animal in the triathlon world.

It's not like he blew up to that time yesterday, he was running crazy slow from the start. It seems like he's just not a great runner, for whatever reason. His swim was pretty impressive yday, but I'm doubtful he'll be any good as a professional triathlete because of that run.

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Dimond Bikes Superfan

I said a few months ago, I think this move was more to do with family/life situation than a "career" move. You just dont leave that type of lucrative career/success for such an unknown unless you really really aren't happy. And that seemed to be the case. So it looks like he's likely got the funds/support to give this a decent real shot to see what happens. But I think all this does is showcase just how hard it is to put it all together with a SWIM+BIKE+RUN. Like you can't fake it out there and expect to do well. Atleast not at that level of racing.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider.php?id=137172&season=2007 Doesn't look like he ever participated in the Tour de France.

He rode both the Giro and Vuelta in 2013....

he was pretty cheerful while running. i don't think he was working super super hard. i heckled him a bit and he was good natured.

I think in similar terms. He will adapt to triathlon riding and he will always get decent splits. But an ironman bike leg is not something that favours the mountain goats. I would expect Dumoulin to ride well there, or Cancellara. There is a reason why uberbikers are 155 plus pounds.
But of course, his cycling prowess will do away with some of that disadvantage and he will be fine. But not ride minutes into everyone.

With the running de need to be careful as well. Yes, low weight and high power to weight ratio show good potential. But there is much more to running fast. Cycling is a strength endurance sport and more power will always make you faster. Running is a different beast. It's about biomechanics and relaxation. You need to float at hard effort. All the power needs to be concentrated into one short push. And ground contact times matter. Some long time cyclists have trouble or need time figuring that out.

In our local Duathlon scene there is a guy that is lighter than me but rides better. His power to weight is better and he even smokes me in the flat. However, I run faster than him.

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

He was both a U23 and US PRO national ITT champ...

Beat me to it! :-)

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Kevin

http://kevinmetcalfe.dreamhosters.com
My Strava

Minor footnotes, wrt to bike prowess... And more slippery now than he was then.

Hi All:
I had the opportunity to talk to Andrew's agent after the race, and everyone seemed pretty happy w the outcome.
He "got his feet wet" so to speak, in the SoCal IM season opener w a competitive field where a course record was set.
I know we're all looking forward to a couple races from now when he's ready rock and roll.
KS

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Karen ST Concierge

Seems like that is really all an agent could say after that race, hard to spin it any other way than a test race I guess. I would just say that if you are not ready for rock and roll, don't go to the concert where they are playing the heavy metal version of it...

Wurf was not a superdomestique. He was an unremarkable rider who bounced between World Tour and Pro Conti teams before switching to triathlon. I'm not trying to be harsh about it, but his professional cycling career was barely notable. He rode three Grand Tours, which is coincidentally the same number of times Andrew Talansky finished inside the top ten of a grand tour. At the time of Talansky's retirement, it would have been entirely uncontroversial to mention him as one of the twenty best grand tour riders in the world. At the time of Wurf's, it would have been entirely uncontroversial to leave him off a list of the top two hundred. Strong domestiques may not have a spectacular palmares, but they usually have a couple of genuinely impressive highlights and a history of World Tour contracts, either as road captains (think David Millar or Nicolas Roche) or as a particular rider's lieutenant (think Maciej Bodnar for Peter Sagan or Mark Renshaw for Mark Cavendish). There's nothing like that in Wurf's history.

Superdomestiques are people like Mathew Hayman, who's ridden at least one monument a year since the start of the millennium and won Paris-Roubaix in 2016. Domestiques are people like Hayman's deputy Chris Juul Jensen, who's done five grand tours and finished inside the top ten at Brabantse Pijl and Strade Bianche. Cameron Wurf, at the age Chris Juul Jensen is now, had done one grand tour and finished fifth in the Tour of Turkey. He was released from his WorldTour contract twice, which is not a strong indication that he was a superdomestique.

Talansky has a Criterium du Dauphine yellow jersey, which he won by beating Alberto Contador. Wurf has a first place at the Chrono Champenois, which is so far down the pecking order of UCI events that World Tour teams aren't allowed to enter. There's a vast gulf of difference between the pro cycling careers of the two riders, and it's insulting to Talansky and patronising to Wurf to pretend they're even vaguely comparable.

I would kinda argue it's semantics because if your not an leader of a GC or a one day tactic rider, pretty much every other rider on the team serves a "domestique" role. Some are the super lieutenants who are the "last man standing"and some are the super unkown guys who pull 2 hrs into the race without much fanfare and no TV audience. But both are super critical to the success of the team, so it's kinda like "ok" if you want to say he wasnt a super domestique. Yawn....the guy rode on pro tour teams, apparently riding 3 GT's....that's enough chops for me to tip the cap to his riding ability.

So I'm not sure what the issue is....One is a better rider than the other. Was it said that they were the same?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I think what you'll end up finding is that although Talansky had a much better pro cycling career, Wurf will have had a better triathlon run when all is said and done. Wurf is a bit too big for World Tour utility. He's basically the same size as Peter Sagan without the explosive attributes of Sagan, but it means he can't really be useful as a climber and he does not have the explosion to be useful in one day racing, meaning he is the diesel who closes long gaps that his physical traits are ideally suited for....and that's what Ironman racing is about. Sustaining that pace consistently forever. Talansky at 5'10, and barely 139 lbs is likely too small to put down fast Ironman bike splits but he's fine for 60 min rolling hyper technical TT's (where being light is not the end of the world, although a slight handicap) or 20-60 min hill climbs. Different horses for different courses. Wurf is better built for IM racing. Talansky actually has a better body type for draft legal ITU racing.

If Talansky succeeds at Kona he will need to run like Lange (same size as Talansky) and bike like Lange first. Lange can ride really well for his weight and his running is the best of all time. Lange's the new version of Greg Welch (similar weight). But we don't know if Talansky can run at that level (despite all my arguements above that he has potential).

I am not sure he ever will be up in the mix. Riding in a pro peloton is one thing but having to ride after having to swim then run is another thing. I hope the best for him but I am not sure he will ever be "In The Mix"