Agree 100%. In a rough open water swim, I could see a snorkel being more of a danger. If anything gets into that snorkel, the risk of aspiration is quite high. I've seen accomplished masters swimmers in the pool have issues with snorkels when we're doing drills, and I myself have experienced a slight bit of panic when the snorkel wouldn't clear. In a pool setting, I was relatively safe...out in open water, it could have been much much worse.

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USA Triathlon Level 2 Coach
Slowtwitch Master Coach
Head Coach, TriCoach Colorado, LLC

The other USAT announcement was that RDs are now required to staff their races with Oral Surgeons to help facilitate tooth extractions initiated by being kicked in the teeth while wearing a snorkel.

Seriously, any kick to the snorkel would direct all the forces to the teeth. To me this seems totally bonehead.

I use a snorkel with total confidence in a pool. I have had neck and shoulder issues, and I have had hip surgery where I wasn't allowed to kick for several weeks. The snorkel let me get a workout in at those times where I was mobility compromised. When not compromised, I like that I can think about some aspect of my stroke or body position without the panicked concern about breathing. In other words, I think they have their place.

I'm not a fish, but have relevant experience swimming in OWS events/ triathlons. I have used a snorkel in calm open water, in a small group with other swimmers and a life guard present, in a relaxed non-race environment. Even with all my comfort going in to it, it was a freaky experience to start. I couldn't imagine recommending a swimmer with any amount of discomfort in the water use one for an open water race event. The worst combination possible would be a swimmer with no open water experience jumping in with a snorkel and thinking they'd be invincible.

I'm all for allowing their use, but not for those using them to be award eligible in the open / AG divisions, and I wouldn't promote their use as USAT have.

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

I'm with you on the needs for a coach/training plan just to jump into the sport to have fun. Knowing the distances of the event you want to do, being able to do that distance in each single discipline, with some overage, with a couple of tries moving from one sport to the other to see how it feels, is all that's needed. Got me through my first sprint / oly / half iron within 4 events and 9 months (end of one season to middle of the next). It doesn't need to be rocket science. No wetsuit. No tri bike. Just grit and some practice in all 3 disciplins.

*Disclaimer: 9-10 years later I acquired a wetsuit, a tri bike, and a couple years after that - a coach. All nice to haves, and none strictly necessary.

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To breathe, to feel, to know I'm alive.

my 2 cents as a experienced triathlete and experienced swimmer who has swum thousands of yards, in a pool, with a snorkel (and 100 of thousands without). For ref, I'm about a 1:08 avg IM swimmer with a 1:04 being my best. I think a snorkel would be a performance enhancer for my IM swim, if, I was in waters like Kona where I could sight without lifting my head. I'm not sure about a lake or river swim, although, I remember IMMOO '14 had a headwind on the long stretch of the swim and to be able to just keep my head down and swim (straight) would have been a big advantage. I'd feel confident using one in competition and I wouldn't be worried about getting it knocked off or full of water. YMMV.

There are snorkels and there are snorkels. As a fish biologist, I have used snorkels for over 30 years in my work. I realize these are not swim/pool snorkels but dive snorkels. I've been in all types of situations where I have filled the snorkel and never once did I get a mouthful of water rushing down my throat. The main difference is that the snorkels that I use have a purge valve. It's very easy to clear the water without lifting your head out of the water. If USAT allows the use of snorkels then I bet the makers of swim/pool snorkels will start adding purge valves heck they could even make it a rule/condition. It would be easy to practice purging while in the pool and it would soon be second nature. Honestly I could care less if snorkels are allowed or not but they are not the danger people are making them out to be.

What triathlons are you people going to?

I’ve been racing for 36 years and NEVER had a bad experience with someone being a dick

I’ve found everyone I encountered to be accepting, helpful and friendly. I’m seriously stunned to see so many posts saying triathletes are elitists, snobs and dicks

And no that is not suppose to be in pink

I’ve often walked up to the winner or other top racers, male and female, and asked them for advice or just to say hi and congrats

The same with BOP racers. If I could I would perpetually live in a post race world. It is so much fun with all of the positive and accepting people.

As a newbie to the sport, thought I'd weight in on the barriers to entry bit.

I'm 49 years old, ran a few marathons and have done a few long distance bike rides (Triple Bypass, etc), and been a crossfitter for a long time (don't judge). I'm fairly fit, but I expect to be a BOPer for a few years and will probably never be a MOPer. For me, part of the allure of triathlon is the challenge - specifically the challenge of the swim. I've been in open water plenty (just found the card I got in Boy Scouts for swimming one mile in open water in high school), but the swim is something I wanted to conquer, so I figured it out. I took a weekend-long swim clinic in a pool, then a refresher clinic. I swim 3 or 4 times a week at our pool according to a free plan I found on-line. I learned the flip turn. But by far the most helpful thing my wife and I found was the Swim Labs facility at Grant Ranch in Lakewood outside Denver. It's a great open water facility where they have buoys set up at various distances, and which has helped tremendously with confidence and sighting skills.

I want to do triathlons precisely because they are a challenge - both mentally and physically. I don't want to see triathlons watered down. If they were easy, everyone would do them.

If the sport is in decline, USAT and others should invest in ways to help people become better swimmers, not make the swim leg easier (isn't this a life skill we all need anyway?). And what about investing in more facilities like Grant Ranch?

That said, I don't need to be punched, kicked, etc. in a mass swim start (strikes me as sort of a hazing rite of passage thing that I don't care about) so I'm all for wave starts to thin out the pack a bit - both in the swim and the bike. Many big run events do this also.

In my limited exposure thus far, I also have not met any dicks. Everyone from the staff and volunteers at Boulder 70.3 where my wife raced a couple weeks ago, the really nice people at Colorado Multisport, the super helpful people at Grant Ranch, and all the people we've met along the way who share stories and encouragement have been amazingly friendly and encouraging and open and generous. Besides the fact that I love the training, the community is one of the reasons I plan to do this for a long time.

I'm lining up at the Harvest half in Boulder on September 16th for my first event and I'm confident the whole race, especially the swim, will be an amazing experience.

I agree... complete b.s.... go over it at the safety briefing, if you are not confident at diving then jump in. A dive start into deep water is safer because the faster swimmers separate far quicker. This answer makes swimmers think Triathlon is bush league.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

i don't find that people are dicks at triathlons. but i do find that people are hypercompetitive in the swim, esp at the start, and what isn't dick behavior sure tastes and feels like dick behavior when someone is swimming over you.

above we had someone decry the pussification of the swim thru, among other things, self-seeded wave starts. then someone agreed with him wholeheartedly, saying it's fine, people just know where to line up according to their abilities. (isn't that pretty close to a self-seeded wave start?)

we can keep the swim prominently featured in triathlon while keeping it safe for newer entries, for older swimmers, less confident or expert swimmers.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Holding steady is basically a death wish on the sport.

Let's stop trying to make the sport inaccessible to people. These are sprint or super sprint athletes likely, unlikely to podium and hurt your ego. So let them do what gets them in the sport

Regarding the safety portion, people die when swims go wrong. Like in Cleveland this weekend. So have a bit more perspective

I’m a decent swimmer and occasionally use a swim snorkel in training. I may use one at my next race just to freak people out.

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Formerly DrD

Agree totally with the hyper competitive swim part. In the local splash n dash, full of triathletes, there is jostling for position during the mass swim start, and a lot of folks who think they can catch a draft or something from the normal 4-5 people who will always come out of the water first. So those folks go way too hard the first 100m, and cause a lot of unnecessary contact.

On the other hand, at an actual 2km open water swim event, full of mostly pure swimmers, everyone spreads out, doesn't sprint the start, and settles in to a nice pace that cranks over time and you race who's near at the end.

So I don't like mass starts in triathlon, even being an alpha fish. I like small waves, like 3-10 athletes starting together, over single-file time-trial starts so that you don't have to worry so much about who started 10s before who when you're racing at the end of the run.

I would like to see the swim more prominently featured. I'd really like to see events where the swim/bike/run fastest split was really close to the same time, so something like 20min of each for a 'sprint', but that would be a pretty drastic reduction in the bike impact from where the sport is now.

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“Can swim” =‘s not drown.

“Can swim” in Tri =‘s covering distance in water at sufficient pace to beat the time cutoffs.

Neither is a very high bar, but the Tri one is a bit more rigorous.

Not sure that snorkels even solve for the main issues that occur during the Tri swim, but if it helps more people get started in the sport, why not?

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float , hammer , and jog

Going to be a d*ck here again..

but in the wave starts (50-60) people and depending on the course, people should know their fitness with the given course conditions. I am fairly quick - usually first couple out of water at local races - but I won't start at the pointy end because I know there will be faster people. I know what an ex college swimmer or ex high school swimmer looks like. See people practicing prior to the start as well.

However - if I place myself correctly - and you doggy paddle but start in front of me - well my 6'2 large shouldered low fat body is going to run you the f*ck over. I will say sorry if I see you after the race but you are preventing me from having a good race when I tried my best to seed myself to my ability. I didn't pay $200 to enter a race and lose time because you can't properly seed yourself. Some people just don't use their brain.

note: I usually see those doggy paddlers pass me on the run #ImslowAFwithrunning

i agree with you. it's just that i do know my speed and fitness, but what if the guy behind me doesn't? even so, i don't mind him drafting... my feet. it's when he tries to draft my shoulderblades that i get cranky.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

So, you're good with people kicking you in the face? Because swimming over people is not a dick move, it's an asshole move. You feel their foot, swim around or let them move right.

Having been swum over before, I hope I've broken some noses, because that shit is why people don't come back to certain races if they're beginners.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Lol

You actually do make a good point

Agreed. I am not fast but have had people draft, but I have to say drafting is one thing, but touching my feet on every stroke, that gets annoying real quick. I had that at a race, so I just started kicking a little harder. Don't think I kicked the person, but they either backed off or swam around me.

This^^is exactly the issue and race directors never, ever, never, ever address it. They say in passing something like, "Seed yourself properly to have the safest, most enjoyable swim."

I say this as a poor swimmer who is intimately familiar with the back of the start pack. It is clear to me that the average triathlete believes there is the top 20 fastest swimmers and then there is everyone else so seeding doesn't really matter.

Maybe worse, there are lots who sprint the first 100 yards only to slow dramatically, backstroke, or side-crawl the rest of the way. In that case, they both swim over me at the start and then stop in front of me when I seed myself in front of them. It's a no win for me.

RDs could really help out the triathlon community and, instead of wasting time giving turn-by-turn directions of the course at the athlete meeting, they could address things that would really make the races better/safer. How many people need to know the course? Almost everyone is following the person in front of them. Instead of wasting time telling people, "You go down Main St., then make a turn on Oak, which follows to Pine...", they could say things like:

1. If you can't swim 400 yards in a pool without stopping, get in the back.
2. Seed yourself based on your average pace, not the fastest 25 you've ever done.
3. It's imperative you let your friend, who is a much faster swimmer than you, start well ahead of you. Do not seed yourself with them. They are going to lose you three strokes in anyway.
4. If you have any swim anxiety, get in the back.
5. Be aware that people swimming around you are not expecting sudden changes to breaststroke. Everyone is swimming forward and freestyle movements are easy to anticipate and avoid. A sudden change to a breaststroke kick is dangerous to someone swimming beside you or passing you.
6. On the bike, do not ride next to your friend and hold a conversation.
7. On the run, be aware of the places that are narrow and that there may be people trying to pass. If you are walking, get out of the way.

My wife did a race once where the T1 exit was a narrow merge of multiple lanes. They sent the men off in multiple waves before the woman. She caught most of the BOP/MOP men swimmers and was exiting T1 with a long line of men. The first guy in her line decided he was going to stop, block her lane, and let all the racers coming from the other lane exit first. She started yelling, "Let's go, let's go." To which he replied, "Relax, nobody here is winning this race." The guy was so clueless as to what was going on he didn't realize he was blocking the lead woman who did go on to win the women's race. Again, a simple word from the RD at the pre-race meeting like, "Hey, slow old dudes, there are some speedy women who are going to be running up your ass so get the hell out of the way" is much more useful than generic tips, course directions, or having a USAT official there explain the nuances of drafting.

To me, it's really the RDs who have to do a better job of teaching the masses how to race and seed themselves. They are the only ones who have a captive audience. The rest of us just sound like dicks when we say these things.

You have my vote for USAT Czar!

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

So the two Olympics I've done they seed by AG Division. So, I swim like a hippo...whereas a few of the local sprints like Mesa do swim time corrals because it's a pool start that goes every five seconds, then they also have different swim caps for each corral...wouldn't be surprised if that race is as big as LifeTime Tempe it's so effing crowded.

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Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.