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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [Tulkas] [ In reply to ]
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Tulkas wrote:
Interesting test idea. I have been considering trying to come up with some sort of test after I realized last year that every single time I wear a full sleeved wetsuit I feel like garbage in the water and have a disappointing swim, and every time I wear my cheap sleeveless suit I feel great and crush it. I guess I could be one of the exceptions that has been mentioned (I was a D2 All-American swimmer and have the v-shaped torso, and am pretty tall), but I wonder if it could just be that I've never trained in that sleeved wetsuit. I don't have any open water to train in nearby, and I've been hesitant to use my wetsuit in the pool (partly because I'd look really dorky, partly because it would be hot, and largely because I don't want to damage the suit).

Did you do your tests in a chlorinated pool? And if so did you do anything special to care for the suit?

A sleeveless has less buoyancy, but you have complete freedom of movement in the shoulders. Some people claim their sleeved gives them full range, but even a trisuit gives you some restriction. I found with my sleeveless I naturally had a faster stroke rate plus I was more comfortable and relaxed in it. I'm back in a sleeved, Xterra Vendetta, quick wetsuit, but I still preferred my $100 sleeveless :)
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
Tulkas wrote:
Interesting test idea. I have been considering trying to come up with some sort of test after I realized last year that every single time I wear a full sleeved wetsuit I feel like garbage in the water and have a disappointing swim, and every time I wear my cheap sleeveless suit I feel great and crush it. I guess I could be one of the exceptions that has been mentioned (I was a D2 All-American swimmer and have the v-shaped torso, and am pretty tall), but I wonder if it could just be that I've never trained in that sleeved wetsuit. I don't have any open water to train in nearby, and I've been hesitant to use my wetsuit in the pool (partly because I'd look really dorky, partly because it would be hot, and largely because I don't want to damage the suit).

Did you do your tests in a chlorinated pool? And if so did you do anything special to care for the suit?


A sleeveless has less buoyancy, but you have complete freedom of movement in the shoulders. Some people claim their sleeved gives them full range, but even a trisuit gives you some restriction. I found with my sleeveless I naturally had a faster stroke rate plus I was more comfortable and relaxed in it. I'm back in a sleeved, Xterra Vendetta, quick wetsuit, but I still preferred my $100 sleeveless :)

not specifically to you, just to everyone who thinks they have wisdom about this:

i want to make it clear, just in case i was misunderstood. did i say that swimming in a fullsuit felt exactly like swimming in a longjohn? as in, it's equally free in shoulders? because, if i ever said that, then may i take that back (altho i'm pretty sure i never said that). what i said is this: fullsuits are always faster. they're always faster. for everyone. regardless of swim ability. of stature. of gender. of race distance. of stroke type. always faster.

now, a particular person's fullsuit may be slower than his longjohn. but that's because he's got an ill fitting fullsuit. so, just like (let us say) racing flats will always be faster than heavyweight motion control shoes in a 5k, if your racing flats are 3 sizes too small then, yes, you may be faster in motion control shoes. if you want to stick with your brooks beast as your racing shoe, fine by me. but it's not faster. it's just that you choose your racing flat poorly. same thing with fullsuit v longjohn.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
zedzded wrote:
Tulkas wrote:
Interesting test idea. I have been considering trying to come up with some sort of test after I realized last year that every single time I wear a full sleeved wetsuit I feel like garbage in the water and have a disappointing swim, and every time I wear my cheap sleeveless suit I feel great and crush it. I guess I could be one of the exceptions that has been mentioned (I was a D2 All-American swimmer and have the v-shaped torso, and am pretty tall), but I wonder if it could just be that I've never trained in that sleeved wetsuit. I don't have any open water to train in nearby, and I've been hesitant to use my wetsuit in the pool (partly because I'd look really dorky, partly because it would be hot, and largely because I don't want to damage the suit).

Did you do your tests in a chlorinated pool? And if so did you do anything special to care for the suit?


A sleeveless has less buoyancy, but you have complete freedom of movement in the shoulders. Some people claim their sleeved gives them full range, but even a trisuit gives you some restriction. I found with my sleeveless I naturally had a faster stroke rate plus I was more comfortable and relaxed in it. I'm back in a sleeved, Xterra Vendetta, quick wetsuit, but I still preferred my $100 sleeveless :)


not specifically to you, just to everyone who thinks they have wisdom about this:

i want to make it clear, just in case i was misunderstood. did i say that swimming in a fullsuit felt exactly like swimming in a longjohn? as in, it's equally free in shoulders? because, if i ever said that, then may i take that back (altho i'm pretty sure i never said that). what i said is this: fullsuits are always faster. they're always faster. for everyone. regardless of swim ability. of stature. of gender. of race distance. of stroke type. always faster.

now, a particular person's fullsuit may be slower than his longjohn. but that's because he's got an ill fitting fullsuit. so, just like (let us say) racing flats will always be faster than heavyweight motion control shoes in a 5k, if your racing flats are 3 sizes too small then, yes, you may be faster in motion control shoes. if you want to stick with your brooks beast as your racing shoe, fine by me. but it's not faster. it's just that you choose your racing flat poorly. same thing with fullsuit v longjohn.


I don't know... you get some pretty chunky people, guys that have smashed the weights etc and the constriction in the arms and shoulders must be massive, to the point it's too restrictive and really reduces their stroke count and their ability to swim quick. I suppose you could argue that the wetsuit is ill-fitting, but for a decent portion of people there are no wetsuits that would fit that great. My mate's 6'1 and 230 pounds, well built, not huge though and he's in Xterra's largest wetsuit. And he struggles with a sleeved wetsuit. I would have thought for him a sleeveless would be better. I suppose in theory you're right, if he could find a sleeved that was custom fit for his body that would be quicker, but that doesn't exist, so I guess it's a moot point? I definitely think people should consider sleeveless as an option if they're not loving their sleeved wetsuit.

Plus I'd argue that the difference in performance between the two is negligible. Brenton Ford tested a sleeved and sleeveless wetsuit in a pool, doing a 400m TT. The former was 7s sec quicker. So 33s quicker for a 70.3 swim, but that was done in a pool, with an elite swimmer. Once you take into consideration things like ocean conditions and drafting especially we're probably not talking a hell of a lot of time. Also my sleeveless was a few secs quicker to get off in transition.
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [legitlegit] [ In reply to ]
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Come to see me at the Aquaman both during the expo at Galveston TX. I will let you try an Aquaman wetsuit and we can talk about fit and all rest.....
Look forward to help you. Emmanuel.
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Ok, so I decided to do my own test to see how my performance compares between full suit and sleeveless. I chose a set I've done a couple times this season already so I already know how to pace it and what splits I should expect. The set is 5x400s best average on an interval that leaves me with about :30 rest between each, trying to slightly negative-split each 400. To normalize the comparison from day to day, I decided to do 1-4 with the wetsuit, and number 5 without. The last time I did this set, number 5 was my fastest one by a second, so I believe this is a good normalizer.

Today was the first test (long-sleeved wetsuit), test 2 will either be Friday evening or Sunday depending on how I feel. Also, to keep this from being about my swim splits, I am using number 2 as a baseline (because it was an even number) and all the other splits are relative to the baseline.

Test #1 - sleeved wetsuit
1-4 with the wetsuit
1: -0:03
2: 0:00
3: -0:02
4: 0:00
5: (no wetsuit) +0:25

So, obviously the wetsuit was much faster than the Speedo, but that was never in doubt. As a reference, number 5 was the exact same split as number 5 last time I did this set (and that time number 5 was the fastest one), so it seems like a solid data point. In case you're curious the wetsuit was a Quintana Roo that I bought used in 2014 from a Tri store that had previously rented it out several times, so it certainly isn't any fancy high end suit these days.

Some observations:
I warmed up in the Speedo, then put on the wetsuit and started the set right away. Number 1 felt stupidly fast after the Speedo warmup (I almost hit the wall at the turns), but about 150 into it I noticed the neck of the suit was pressing my throat and making me very uncomfortable, I could definitely see that causing issues during a race as it felt like it was restricting my breathing. Also around that time I noticed the left side of the suit was feeling tight like it was pulling my arm down while I was in the recovery phase. I adjusted the neck during the rest interval by pulling up the cuff, and never noticed it again. I tried to fix the sleeve by pulling it higher on my arm, but it never improved much. While I was resting at the wall I felt like I could raise my arm without any restriction and it was very comfortable, so I think the suit is a good fit for me. The arm restriction (not shoulder, more like the lats) was only noticeable while swimming. Also definitely worth noting was that I began to feel very fatigued by number 3 and 4 (much more so than I should have). On number 4 I really focused on taking the first 200 out comfortably, but the effort still increased dramatically as I went. I am certain this was from the suit, and though it didn't slow me down much in the pool, in a triathlon swim this level of effort would definitely make me back off. I am confident this is why I have crummy swims in this wetsuit, in fact I distinctly recall that feeling of fatigue and consciously deciding to slow down knowing I was going into the red. In this set today I didn't think I would finish number 5 the way 3 & 4 went, but 5 ended up feeling the way a hard swim should (hard but manageable and under control) so the feeling of undue fatigue went away when I took off the suit. Amusingly, the first 100 after removing the suit felt REALLY weird, it's hard to describe but it felt weird and slow.

I look forward to repeating this test with the sleeveless suit soon, and I really don't know what to expect. As I swam today I actually thought about my body position in the water and could see how the sleeveless suit might slow me down by letting water in under the armpit. I'll be sure to provide an update when I'm done.

Powertap / Cycleops / Saris
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
Slowman wrote:
zedzded wrote:
Tulkas wrote:
Interesting test idea. I have been considering trying to come up with some sort of test after I realized last year that every single time I wear a full sleeved wetsuit I feel like garbage in the water and have a disappointing swim, and every time I wear my cheap sleeveless suit I feel great and crush it. I guess I could be one of the exceptions that has been mentioned (I was a D2 All-American swimmer and have the v-shaped torso, and am pretty tall), but I wonder if it could just be that I've never trained in that sleeved wetsuit. I don't have any open water to train in nearby, and I've been hesitant to use my wetsuit in the pool (partly because I'd look really dorky, partly because it would be hot, and largely because I don't want to damage the suit).

Did you do your tests in a chlorinated pool? And if so did you do anything special to care for the suit?


A sleeveless has less buoyancy, but you have complete freedom of movement in the shoulders. Some people claim their sleeved gives them full range, but even a trisuit gives you some restriction. I found with my sleeveless I naturally had a faster stroke rate plus I was more comfortable and relaxed in it. I'm back in a sleeved, Xterra Vendetta, quick wetsuit, but I still preferred my $100 sleeveless :)


not specifically to you, just to everyone who thinks they have wisdom about this:

i want to make it clear, just in case i was misunderstood. did i say that swimming in a fullsuit felt exactly like swimming in a longjohn? as in, it's equally free in shoulders? because, if i ever said that, then may i take that back (altho i'm pretty sure i never said that). what i said is this: fullsuits are always faster. they're always faster. for everyone. regardless of swim ability. of stature. of gender. of race distance. of stroke type. always faster.

now, a particular person's fullsuit may be slower than his longjohn. but that's because he's got an ill fitting fullsuit. so, just like (let us say) racing flats will always be faster than heavyweight motion control shoes in a 5k, if your racing flats are 3 sizes too small then, yes, you may be faster in motion control shoes. if you want to stick with your brooks beast as your racing shoe, fine by me. but it's not faster. it's just that you choose your racing flat poorly. same thing with fullsuit v longjohn.



I don't know... you get some pretty chunky people, guys that have smashed the weights etc and the constriction in the arms and shoulders must be massive, to the point it's too restrictive and really reduces their stroke count and their ability to swim quick. I suppose you could argue that the wetsuit is ill-fitting, but for a decent portion of people there are no wetsuits that would fit that great. My mate's 6'1 and 230 pounds, well built, not huge though and he's in Xterra's largest wetsuit. And he struggles with a sleeved wetsuit. I would have thought for him a sleeveless would be better. I suppose in theory you're right, if he could find a sleeved that was custom fit for his body that would be quicker, but that doesn't exist, so I guess it's a moot point? I definitely think people should consider sleeveless as an option if they're not loving their sleeved wetsuit.

Plus I'd argue that the difference in performance between the two is negligible. Brenton Ford tested a sleeved and sleeveless wetsuit in a pool, doing a 400m TT. The former was 7s sec quicker. So 33s quicker for a 70.3 swim, but that was done in a pool, with an elite swimmer. Once you take into consideration things like ocean conditions and drafting especially we're probably not talking a hell of a lot of time. Also my sleeveless was a few secs quicker to get off in transition.

I was in the industry for nearly 10 years, and I'm with Slowman on this. All the testing we did showed that full suits were faster. Unless you have a poorly fitting (or crap) suit of course. You could not get much better open water racers than Craig Walton/Ben Sanson at their peaks, and they were faster in the full. Naturally there may be the odd exception, like people with significant shoulder issues, but if you have a really high quality suit, the full should be faster.

Regarding the speed in transition, by the time you get to the bike, the suit should be at the waist anyhow, and from there, they should be the same. Haydn Woolley got an early model Orca off in 3.9 seconds, from fully done up.
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [Tulkas] [ In reply to ]
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Tulkas wrote:
Ok, so I decided to do my own test to see how my performance compares between full suit and sleeveless. I chose a set I've done a couple times this season already so I already know how to pace it and what splits I should expect. The set is 5x400s best average on an interval that leaves me with about :30 rest between each, trying to slightly negative-split each 400. To normalize the comparison from day to day, I decided to do 1-4 with the wetsuit, and number 5 without. The last time I did this set, number 5 was my fastest one by a second, so I believe this is a good normalizer.

Today was the first test (long-sleeved wetsuit), test 2 will either be Friday evening or Sunday depending on how I feel. Also, to keep this from being about my swim splits, I am using number 2 as a baseline (because it was an even number) and all the other splits are relative to the baseline.

Test #1 - sleeved wetsuit
1-4 with the wetsuit
1: -0:03
2: 0:00
3: -0:02
4: 0:00
5: (no wetsuit) +0:25

So, obviously the wetsuit was much faster than the Speedo, but that was never in doubt. As a reference, number 5 was the exact same split as number 5 last time I did this set (and that time number 5 was the fastest one), so it seems like a solid data point. In case you're curious the wetsuit was a Quintana Roo that I bought used in 2014 from a Tri store that had previously rented it out several times, so it certainly isn't any fancy high end suit these days.

Some observations:
I warmed up in the Speedo, then put on the wetsuit and started the set right away. Number 1 felt stupidly fast after the Speedo warmup (I almost hit the wall at the turns), but about 150 into it I noticed the neck of the suit was pressing my throat and making me very uncomfortable, I could definitely see that causing issues during a race as it felt like it was restricting my breathing. Also around that time I noticed the left side of the suit was feeling tight like it was pulling my arm down while I was in the recovery phase. I adjusted the neck during the rest interval by pulling up the cuff, and never noticed it again. I tried to fix the sleeve by pulling it higher on my arm, but it never improved much. While I was resting at the wall I felt like I could raise my arm without any restriction and it was very comfortable, so I think the suit is a good fit for me. The arm restriction (not shoulder, more like the lats) was only noticeable while swimming. Also definitely worth noting was that I began to feel very fatigued by number 3 and 4 (much more so than I should have). On number 4 I really focused on taking the first 200 out comfortably, but the effort still increased dramatically as I went. I am certain this was from the suit, and though it didn't slow me down much in the pool, in a triathlon swim this level of effort would definitely make me back off. I am confident this is why I have crummy swims in this wetsuit, in fact I distinctly recall that feeling of fatigue and consciously deciding to slow down knowing I was going into the red. In this set today I didn't think I would finish number 5 the way 3 & 4 went, but 5 ended up feeling the way a hard swim should (hard but manageable and under control) so the feeling of undue fatigue went away when I took off the suit. Amusingly, the first 100 after removing the suit felt REALLY weird, it's hard to describe but it felt weird and slow.

I look forward to repeating this test with the sleeveless suit soon, and I really don't know what to expect. As I swam today I actually thought about my body position in the water and could see how the sleeveless suit might slow me down by letting water in under the armpit. I'll be sure to provide an update when I'm done.

i look forward to reading the second installment.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [legitlegit] [ In reply to ]
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Sleeved are faster. I own a sleeveless.

Why do I own a sleeveless?
-Bought it for a very low price - used Xterra online. Cost about the same as few pairs of nice wool socks.
-I have longish large arms and tight shoulders and did not know if a sleeved suit would work easily for me.
-I was pretty confident it would fit when I bought it without trying it on first.
-I may never end up actually using it in a race, but if I do it will likely be on the warm end of wetsuit legal.
-I look and feel bad ass when I wear it.

That said, I would absolutely buy a sleeved suit if I expected to regularly race wetsuit legal races.

DK
Last edited by: DavidK: Apr 4, 18 18:10
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [Tulkas] [ In reply to ]
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Tulkas wrote:
Ok, so I decided to do my own test to see how my performance compares between full suit and sleeveless. I chose a set I've done a couple times this season already so I already know how to pace it and what splits I should expect. The set is 5x400s best average on an interval that leaves me with about :30 rest between each, trying to slightly negative-split each 400. To normalize the comparison from day to day, I decided to do 1-4 with the wetsuit, and number 5 without. The last time I did this set, number 5 was my fastest one by a second, so I believe this is a good normalizer.

Today was the first test (long-sleeved wetsuit), test 2 will either be Friday evening or Sunday depending on how I feel. Also, to keep this from being about my swim splits, I am using number 2 as a baseline (because it was an even number) and all the other splits are relative to the baseline.

Test #1 - sleeved wetsuit
1-4 with the wetsuit
1: -0:03
2: 0:00
3: -0:02
4: 0:00
5: (no wetsuit) +0:25

So, obviously the wetsuit was much faster than the Speedo, but that was never in doubt. As a reference, number 5 was the exact same split as number 5 last time I did this set (and that time number 5 was the fastest one), so it seems like a solid data point. In case you're curious the wetsuit was a Quintana Roo that I bought used in 2014 from a Tri store that had previously rented it out several times, so it certainly isn't any fancy high end suit these days.

Some observations:
I warmed up in the Speedo, then put on the wetsuit and started the set right away. Number 1 felt stupidly fast after the Speedo warmup (I almost hit the wall at the turns), but about 150 into it I noticed the neck of the suit was pressing my throat and making me very uncomfortable, I could definitely see that causing issues during a race as it felt like it was restricting my breathing. Also around that time I noticed the left side of the suit was feeling tight like it was pulling my arm down while I was in the recovery phase. I adjusted the neck during the rest interval by pulling up the cuff, and never noticed it again. I tried to fix the sleeve by pulling it higher on my arm, but it never improved much. While I was resting at the wall I felt like I could raise my arm without any restriction and it was very comfortable, so I think the suit is a good fit for me. The arm restriction (not shoulder, more like the lats) was only noticeable while swimming. Also definitely worth noting was that I began to feel very fatigued by number 3 and 4 (much more so than I should have). On number 4 I really focused on taking the first 200 out comfortably, but the effort still increased dramatically as I went. I am certain this was from the suit, and though it didn't slow me down much in the pool, in a triathlon swim this level of effort would definitely make me back off. I am confident this is why I have crummy swims in this wetsuit, in fact I distinctly recall that feeling of fatigue and consciously deciding to slow down knowing I was going into the red. In this set today I didn't think I would finish number 5 the way 3 & 4 went, but 5 ended up feeling the way a hard swim should (hard but manageable and under control) so the feeling of undue fatigue went away when I took off the suit. Amusingly, the first 100 after removing the suit felt REALLY weird, it's hard to describe but it felt weird and slow.

I look forward to repeating this test with the sleeveless suit soon, and I really don't know what to expect. As I swam today I actually thought about my body position in the water and could see how the sleeveless suit might slow me down by letting water in under the armpit. I'll be sure to provide an update when I'm done.

Bottom line up front: They tested about the same and I will always wear my sleeveless suit unless the water is stupidly cold, but I think the right sleeved suit could be slightly faster.

Details
This test was done at the same pool, in the same lane, close to the same time of day, same warmup, but wearing my sleeveless wetsuit instead of full-sleeved for the first 4 of 5x400s. The splits (using the same baseline number as last time, so splits are relative to the baseline):

1: -0:06
2: +0:01
3: 0:00
4: -0:02
5: (no wetsuit) +0:21

So what's the takeaway? Instinctively I would say that my sleeveless wetsuit is just as fast as my full-sleeved wetsuit for me. But this isn't a perfect test, I don't read much into the first one being a bit faster than the first one last time, and the second one being so much slower than the first was probably attributable to lack of focus (I was thinking of the $#*+storm that was going to arise if this test showed the sleeveless to be faster lol). Numbers 3 & 4 were on my limit just like last time, and the splits were identical to last time but flipped. The difference this time was that I definitely didn't experience the fatigue in my arms/lats that I did on 3 & 4 with the full suit. Number 5 was emptying the tank just like last time, and I had just a tad more in the tank this time. This could have been due to the lack of arm fatigue caused by the wetsuit, or I could just be having a slightly better day.

Things I noticed: 1. my sleeveless suit (Xterra Vortex 3, circa 2009) has thicker neoprene on the front than my sleeved wetsuit (Quintana Roo Hydrofull, year unknown but I think they stopped making them in 2013 so probably around that age). That's why I stressed that this test only means that my sleeveless suit is as fast as my sleeved suit. I'm sure the thicker neoprene matters. 2. The full sleeve suit felt faster in the water, I was shocked when I saw my first split today and saw I went so much faster than last time. The sleeved suit made me feel like a rocket, while the sleeveless just made me feel fast. But, maybe there is something to be said for having that feel for the water... 3. I realized I prefer the sleeveless suit, mostly due to the feel of the water, but also because that feeling of the suit dragging my arms down that I experience later in the swim every time is aweful. Maybe I could get used to it if I trained in the suit, but I don't have regular access to open water for such training. 4. I think I learned from this that the right full-sleeved suit likely would be a little faster than my sleeveless suit, but I highly doubt the difference would be even close to worth the cost. I could see gaining up to 10 seconds in an Olympic-distance swim, but probably not more than that. Even if it was a full minute, a family man in my income bracket shouldn't even consider an upgrade for the cost of some of these wetsuits; at 10 seconds it's laughable. That said, if they were all free and I could choose any wetsuit I wanted, I would definitely test the DeSoto 2-piece suits, it looks like they could alleviate the problem of excess fatigue in the lats and are probably the most clever product in this market.

Powertap / Cycleops / Saris
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [DavidK] [ In reply to ]
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I've been racing in my sleeved Vendetta all season, used my old sleeveless Vortex last friday for a training swim and was blown away at how good it felt. Stroke rate was so high and sprinting felt much easier. I'm going to wear it for a sprint this weekend and see how it goes. I do like the Vendetta though. It just doesn't feel as good. I probably need to get in the pool and do a test. I reckon over a short distance 50m - 100m the sleeveless might be faster, but 400m the sleeved would be quicker?
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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The primary reason to wear sleeveless is water temperature. Not because it feels better and certainly not because its faster (they aren't). I think the USAT cutoff temp is in general too high. If you are planning on swimming hard in 78 degree water with a full sleeve wetsuit most are asking for trouble especially if the outside temperature is warm.

I have raced a bunch in a sleeveless over the past few years and its been great. I may be giving up a second or two per 100, but there is no risk of overheating.
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
I've been racing in my sleeved Vendetta all season, used my old sleeveless Vortex last friday for a training swim and was blown away at how good it felt. Stroke rate was so high and sprinting felt much easier. I'm going to wear it for a sprint this weekend and see how it goes. I do like the Vendetta though. It just doesn't feel as good. I probably need to get in the pool and do a test. I reckon over a short distance 50m - 100m the sleeveless might be faster, but 400m the sleeved would be quicker?


Did the sprint, overall race wasn't as good as I hoped, was looking to podium, ended up 8th. They extended the sprint from a 750/20/5 to a 1/28/8, but they fucked up the swim measurement. It ended up being 730m, so all advantage got handed to the bikers/runners. I raced in my sleeveless for the first time in a year and I ended up 1st out the water, but 3rd once we crossed the timing mats, 23/450 compared to my previous sprint where I was 5th and 154th overall (same course, similar opponents). In some ways a swim result I didn't want to have. I have a sleeved wetsuit that cost $700 and a $100 sleeveless that should be slower, but it isn't .Note I spent the whole swim with the two other guys that finish exited 2nd and 3rd, drafted off them, then overtook them in the final 100m. Was planning on wearing my full for my 70.3 in 3 weeks, but now I'm in a conundrum. Full = more flotation, sleeveless = faster stroke rate. I felt when I needed to sprint, start and end, the sleeveless was no doubt quicker. If it was 3.8km, the sleeved for sure. I wouldn't have been able to keep up the fast stroke rate for that distance, I was pretty much 3/4 catch up for the sprint. Sleeved is faster than a sleeveless in a pool without a doubt, but real world - a lot of other variables to consider.
Last edited by: zedzded: Apr 15, 18 1:52
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
Slowman wrote:
zedzded wrote:
Tulkas wrote:
Interesting test idea. I have been considering trying to come up with some sort of test after I realized last year that every single time I wear a full sleeved wetsuit I feel like garbage in the water and have a disappointing swim, and every time I wear my cheap sleeveless suit I feel great and crush it. I guess I could be one of the exceptions that has been mentioned (I was a D2 All-American swimmer and have the v-shaped torso, and am pretty tall), but I wonder if it could just be that I've never trained in that sleeved wetsuit. I don't have any open water to train in nearby, and I've been hesitant to use my wetsuit in the pool (partly because I'd look really dorky, partly because it would be hot, and largely because I don't want to damage the suit).

Did you do your tests in a chlorinated pool? And if so did you do anything special to care for the suit?


A sleeveless has less buoyancy, but you have complete freedom of movement in the shoulders. Some people claim their sleeved gives them full range, but even a trisuit gives you some restriction. I found with my sleeveless I naturally had a faster stroke rate plus I was more comfortable and relaxed in it. I'm back in a sleeved, Xterra Vendetta, quick wetsuit, but I still preferred my $100 sleeveless :)


not specifically to you, just to everyone who thinks they have wisdom about this:

i want to make it clear, just in case i was misunderstood. did i say that swimming in a fullsuit felt exactly like swimming in a longjohn? as in, it's equally free in shoulders? because, if i ever said that, then may i take that back (altho i'm pretty sure i never said that). what i said is this: fullsuits are always faster. they're always faster. for everyone. regardless of swim ability. of stature. of gender. of race distance. of stroke type. always faster.

now, a particular person's fullsuit may be slower than his longjohn. but that's because he's got an ill fitting fullsuit. so, just like (let us say) racing flats will always be faster than heavyweight motion control shoes in a 5k, if your racing flats are 3 sizes too small then, yes, you may be faster in motion control shoes. if you want to stick with your brooks beast as your racing shoe, fine by me. but it's not faster. it's just that you choose your racing flat poorly. same thing with fullsuit v longjohn.



I don't know... you get some pretty chunky people, guys that have smashed the weights etc and the constriction in the arms and shoulders must be massive, to the point it's too restrictive and really reduces their stroke count and their ability to swim quick. I suppose you could argue that the wetsuit is ill-fitting, but for a decent portion of people there are no wetsuits that would fit that great. My mate's 6'1 and 230 pounds, well built, not huge though and he's in Xterra's largest wetsuit. And he struggles with a sleeved wetsuit. I would have thought for him a sleeveless would be better. I suppose in theory you're right, if he could find a sleeved that was custom fit for his body that would be quicker, but that doesn't exist, so I guess it's a moot point? I definitely think people should consider sleeveless as an option if they're not loving their sleeved wetsuit.

Plus I'd argue that the difference in performance between the two is negligible. Brenton Ford tested a sleeved and sleeveless wetsuit in a pool, doing a 400m TT. The former was 7s sec quicker. So 33s quicker for a 70.3 swim, but that was done in a pool, with an elite swimmer. Once you take into consideration things like ocean conditions and drafting especially we're probably not talking a hell of a lot of time. Also my sleeveless was a few secs quicker to get off in transition.

I would respectfully disagree that sleeved wetsuits are always faster.

As one with 'significant shoulder issues' from prior fractures, I know that for me, the sleeved suit was slower, only minimally, but slightly slower. My N=1. Restriction of shoulder movement is alleviated and I have much less fatigue in a sleeveless. I could easily see that muscle bound people with developed shoulders or particular body types could also have an issue with stroke cadence or reach despite the buoyancy benefit, but that is just theory.
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Re: sleeveless vs sleeve wetsuit [dtoce] [ In reply to ]
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Looking back at my last 4 races, all with my sleeved Vendetta, stroke rate was 72, with my sleeveless at the weekend it was 76.
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