Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES"
Quote | Reply
Recently, in Syria, a large group of about 500 Russian mercenaries attempted to overrun a position held by US forces. The end result was what surviving Russian forces characterized as a humiliating defeat. Leaving aside the geopolitical considerations as well as the advisability of all this craziness in Syria that goes on between the US, Russia, IRAN, and Syria (along with a gaggle of Kurds that Turkey considers terrorists), here are some snippets of just-released audio said to be from survivors of the ill-fated roll-up attempt:

First clip:

"The reports that are on TV about ... well, you know, about Syria and the 25 people that are wounded there from the Syrian f--- army and — well ... to make it short, we've had our asses f--- kicked. So one squadron f--- lost 200 people ... right away, another one lost 10 people ... and I don't know about the third squadron, but it got torn up pretty badly, too ... So three squadrons took a beating ... The Yankees attacked ... first they blasted the f--- out of us by artillery, and then they took four helicopters up and pushed us in a f--- merry-go-round with heavy caliber machine guns ... They were all shelling the holy f--- out of it, and our guys didn't have anything besides the assault rifles ... nothing at all, not even mentioning shoulder-fired SAMs or anything like that ... So they tore us to pieces for sure, put us through hell, and the Yankees knew for sure that the Russians were coming, that it was us, f--- Russians ... Our guys were going to commandeer an oil refinery, and the Yankees were holding it ... We got our f--- asses beat rough, my men called me ... They're there drinking now ... many have gone missing ... it's a total f--- up, it sucks, another takedown ... Everybody, you know, treats us like pieces of s--- ... They beat our asses like we were little pieces of s--- ... but our f--- government will go in reverse now, and nobody will respond or anything, and nobody will punish anyone for this ... So these are our casualties."

Second clip:

"Out of all vehicles, only one tank survived and one BRDM [armored reconnaissance vehicle] after the attack, all other BRDMs and tanks were destroyed in the first minutes of the fight, right away."

Third clip:

"Just had a call with a guy — so they basically formed a convoy, but did not get to their f--- positions by some 300 meters. One unit moved forward, the convoy remained in place, about 300 meters from the others. The others raised the American f--- flag, and their artillery started f--- ours really hard. Then their f--- choppers flew in and started f--- everybody. Ours just running around. Just got a call from a pal, so there are about 215 f--- killed. They simply rolled ours out f--- hard. Made their point. What the f--- ours were hoping for in there?! That they will f--- run away themselves? Hoped to f--- scare them away? Lots of people f--- so bad [they] can't be f--- ID'd. There was no foot soldiers [on the American side]; they simply f--- our convoy with artillery."

Some observations:

The Russians appear to have tried to attack a well-prepared US position -- one in which US soldiers had time to lay in all kinds of defenses -- that was fully coordinated in terms of the ability to use combined arms (especially air and artillery).

They tried to do so without any air or artillery, including multiple rocket launcher systems such as the Smerch or Katyusha, of their own, meaning they had no counter-battery capability to detect incoming American artillery and then calculate where it was fired from, and then send their own counter-fire back along those trajectories to tamp down US artillery support of that position.

Russian tanks -- such as they were -- were aged T-72s, with accompanying infantry troops (and tanks don't move without infantry support) only lightly armed with rifles and no MANPADs (man-portable air defense systems), such as the Russian Verba or Igla, to suppress US helicopters, which seem to have really laid into Russian armor and ground troops with a vengeance.

As noted in the clips above, the Russian mercenaries (they're typically former army and Spetnaz special forces troops) appear to have thought that sallying forth in a show of force and advancing on the American position was going to be enough to force US troops to retreat, perhaps because they believed the Americans manning the position weren't going to engage them.

No military force does a better job at coordinating combined arms than the US. Part of that is for technological reasons but it's more about the almost-obsessive focus on effectively utilizing every aspect (air, artillery, armor and infantry) of the combined arms menu, and then incessantly drilling American troops on it, than anything else.

Looks like it was a bad day all around for the Russians, who may have suffered 50% of troops killed or wounded in the attempt.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Going against a hardened position without air support is just suicide or arrogant.
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wonder if the US forces were given a bit of extra authority to to throw it all at those fn’ Russian wanna be’s?
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know someone who told me they were shocked by this easy victory. I asked why... they're just Mercs. This isn't the movies. Half the mercs are probably the Russian equivalent of fat slobs here that open carry while drinking PBR and trying to school people on the Bill of Rights.

I talk to myself because mine are the only answers I'll accept - George Carlin
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [Tatonka] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tatonka wrote:
I know someone who told me they were shocked by this easy victory. I asked why... they're just Mercs. This isn't the movies. Half the mercs are probably the Russian equivalent of fat slobs here that open carry while drinking PBR and trying to school people on the Bill of Rights.

Every private military contractor that I've known, foreign or domestic, has had a solid military background, such as US Army Airborne Infantry or Ranger, Marine Recon, Navy SEAL, or French Foreign Legion, and I've known two of those gentlemen, or some training in an African military organization.

I don't know this Russian force, meaning anything about it, specifically. But Russian mercenaries typically come either from their army or from their special forces organization, which is Spetznaz. In this case, it may have been that Russia was even using active military troops and simply calling them mercenaries, in order to avoid any International examination if, as happened here, it all blew up in their faces.

To me, that doesn't seem to be the case, because a couple of these men in the clips were complaining about how they and their troops are always being treated poorly or badly, I'm assuming by the Russian command structure over there. That's something common to most professional military organizations, in that they look at actual mercenaries with a bit of disdain. True US professional military contractors, or PMCs, only work for US organizations and agencies or only for State Department approved foreign organizations, agencies, governments and similar entities.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I understand this is a morale boosting story for both the troops there and citizens at home. But I wouldn't read too much into it and suspect a similar result if Blackwater 'contractors' attempted to an assault of a hardened Russian military position.

Every nation likes to create a mythos that their people have a innate superiority over enemies - in bravery, skill, ingenuity, endurance, etc. This mythos can be a powerful motivational tool but can backfire badly when that myth get inevitably shattered.

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [Guffaw] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Guffaw wrote:
I understand this is a morale boosting story for both the troops there and citizens at home. But I wouldn't read too much into it and suspect a similar result if Blackwater 'contractors' attempted to an assault of a hardened Russian military position.

Every nation likes to create a mythos that their people have a innate superiority over enemies - in bravery, skill, ingenuity, endurance, etc. This mythos can be a powerful motivational tool but can backfire badly when that myth get inevitably shattered.

Is that what every nation likes to create -- the mythos that their fighting forces have an innate superiority over those of the United States? I don't see it. Not as something that people really believe. Nowadays people tend to respond to evidence.
Last edited by: SH: Feb 27, 18 10:44
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [SH] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SH wrote:
Guffaw wrote:
I understand this is a morale boosting story for both the troops there and citizens at home. But I wouldn't read too much into it and suspect a similar result if Blackwater 'contractors' attempted to an assault of a hardened Russian military position.

Every nation likes to create a mythos that their people have a innate superiority over enemies - in bravery, skill, ingenuity, endurance, etc. This mythos can be a powerful motivational tool but can backfire badly when that myth get inevitably shattered.

Is that what every nation likes to create -- the mythos that their fighting forces have an innate superiority over those of the United States? I don't see it. Not as something that people really believe. Nowadays people tend to respond to evidence.

I don't know about all that mythos stuff, but I do know this: we are the best in the world when it comes to combined arms and their effective usage. It's not that our troops are Aryan supermen, figuratively speaking,, it's more that we train like we fight and we have troops that are able to improvise on-the-fly and use their coconuts for more than just carrying their advanced combat helmets around. ;-)

As others have said, I think it's more that the Russians walked into this engagement thinking that US ROEs would mandate that our troops fall back or egress the area and just hand over whatever it was (apparently an oil refinery) they were sitting on.

To try to force US troops off a prepared position using three major and obviously visible convoys filled with troops and vulnerable tanks and armored personnel carriers (not screened by artillery, air and anti-air assets) seems to me like an exercise in stupidity. Or drunken insanity. But these are the Russians we're talking about, after all. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Real world is always more complex than movies... No one so far was able to prove if it was Wagner Group or similar Russian outfit (private, shadow government, or combination) or true volunteers, or some other combination of "Russians" (combining legal residents of Russia, Ukraine and other ex-republics). The only facts are: meaningful number (20 to 200+) of such Russian participants were eliminated by coordinated US-lead air/artillery response, Russian contingent was woefully under-prepared (intel, equipment, tactics) and now "complaining" (fairly new development, as for generations, survivors simply kept publicly silent and drunk their anger away). I have no comment on why they would "attack" but reading (in Russian and English from three "sides" of this conflict), conflict remains a military shit show where tactical planning and achievements could range from "wake up drunk and decided to lead a convoy" to strategic level approach. And yes, these Russians are not part of the American or European special forces or professional military "culture" - you do not see 12 guys doing pull ups or yanking weights for fun on their off time... And this is why Russians can not claim they invented triathlon - no one would take seriously challenge to spend 10-15 hours swimming, riding and running on day off ;-)
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:

Some observations:

The Russians appear to have tried to attack a well-prepared US position -- one in which US soldiers had time to lay in all kinds of defenses -- that was fully coordinated in terms of the ability to use combined arms (especially air and artillery).

They tried to do so without any air or artillery, including multiple rocket launcher systems such as the Smerch or Katyusha, of their own, meaning they had no counter-battery capability to detect incoming American artillery and then calculate where it was fired from, and then send their own counter-fire back along those trajectories to tamp down US artillery support of that position.

Russian tanks -- such as they were -- were aged T-72s, with accompanying infantry troops (and tanks don't move without infantry support) only lightly armed with rifles and no MANPADs (man-portable air defense systems), such as the Russian Verba or Igla, to suppress US helicopters, which seem to have really laid into Russian armor and ground troops with a vengeance.

As noted in the clips above, the Russian mercenaries (they're typically former army and Spetnaz special forces troops) appear to have thought that sallying forth in a show of force and advancing on the American position was going to be enough to force US troops to retreat, perhaps because they believed the Americans manning the position weren't going to engage them.

No military force does a better job at coordinating combined arms than the US. Part of that is for technological reasons but it's more about the almost-obsessive focus on effectively utilizing every aspect (air, artillery, armor and infantry) of the combined arms menu, and then incessantly drilling American troops on it, than anything else.

Looks like it was a bad day all around for the Russians, who may have suffered 50% of troops killed or wounded in the attempt.

Probably one of the issues the Russians faced was that the were trying to capture the refinery intact which precluded the use of artillery. Like you and others have said, they were probably banking on U.S. ROEs to not actually fight. Not having MANPADs is what really caused these guys to get shredded. Could you imagine just rolling tanks and dismounted infantry across a dessert with absolutely no AA? It was a shooting gallery for the Apache pilots (assuming it was Apaches).
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
SH wrote:
Guffaw wrote:
I understand this is a morale boosting story for both the troops there and citizens at home. But I wouldn't read too much into it and suspect a similar result if Blackwater 'contractors' attempted to an assault of a hardened Russian military position.

Every nation likes to create a mythos that their people have a innate superiority over enemies - in bravery, skill, ingenuity, endurance, etc. This mythos can be a powerful motivational tool but can backfire badly when that myth get inevitably shattered.

Is that what every nation likes to create -- the mythos that their fighting forces have an innate superiority over those of the United States? I don't see it. Not as something that people really believe. Nowadays people tend to respond to evidence.


I don't know about all that mythos stuff, but I do know this: we are the best in the world when it comes to combined arms and their effective usage. It's not that our troops are Aryan supermen, figuratively speaking,, it's more that we train like we fight and we have troops that are able to improvise on-the-fly and use their coconuts for more than just carrying their advanced combat helmets around. ;-)

As others have said, I think it's more that the Russians walked into this engagement thinking that US ROEs would mandate that our troops fall back or egress the area and just hand over whatever it was (apparently an oil refinery) they were sitting on.

To try to force US troops off a prepared position using three major and obviously visible convoys filled with troops and vulnerable tanks and armored personnel carriers (not screened by artillery, air and anti-air assets) seems to me like an exercise in stupidity. Or drunken insanity. But these are the Russians we're talking about, after all. ;-)

Now to ask for an opinion. How much can the US military presence at the refinery, and the US complete destruction of the Russian mercs, be seen as some kind of payback for, ummmm, ummmm, ummmmm, that which should not be mentioned?
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [SH] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SH wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
SH wrote:
Guffaw wrote:
I understand this is a morale boosting story for both the troops there and citizens at home. But I wouldn't read too much into it and suspect a similar result if Blackwater 'contractors' attempted to an assault of a hardened Russian military position.

Every nation likes to create a mythos that their people have a innate superiority over enemies - in bravery, skill, ingenuity, endurance, etc. This mythos can be a powerful motivational tool but can backfire badly when that myth get inevitably shattered.

Is that what every nation likes to create -- the mythos that their fighting forces have an innate superiority over those of the United States? I don't see it. Not as something that people really believe. Nowadays people tend to respond to evidence.


I don't know about all that mythos stuff, but I do know this: we are the best in the world when it comes to combined arms and their effective usage. It's not that our troops are Aryan supermen, figuratively speaking,, it's more that we train like we fight and we have troops that are able to improvise on-the-fly and use their coconuts for more than just carrying their advanced combat helmets around. ;-)

As others have said, I think it's more that the Russians walked into this engagement thinking that US ROEs would mandate that our troops fall back or egress the area and just hand over whatever it was (apparently an oil refinery) they were sitting on.

To try to force US troops off a prepared position using three major and obviously visible convoys filled with troops and vulnerable tanks and armored personnel carriers (not screened by artillery, air and anti-air assets) seems to me like an exercise in stupidity. Or drunken insanity. But these are the Russians we're talking about, after all. ;-)


Now to ask for an opinion. How much can the US military presence at the refinery, and the US complete destruction of the Russian mercs, be seen as some kind of payback for, ummmm, ummmm, ummmmm, that which should not be mentioned?

I don't know. But there was definitely a message sent, and even the surviving Russians speaking in those clips made mention of the "Yankee message."

One friend of mine -- big Hillary supporter -- says that Donny Two Scoops and Vlad The Impaler cooked the whole engagement up to throw everyone off the Russian collusion thing. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: Russian Mercenaries of US Forces: "They Beat Our A$$ES" [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Maybe it is a Trump/Putin squirrel. I would it more of an escalation of the current proxy war being fought in Syria. This is the closest that Russian forces have come to engaging the US in decades.
Quote Reply