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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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yes... major conflict over information sharing/sanctioning and governence

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2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [realAB] [ In reply to ]
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realAB wrote:
yes... major conflict over information sharing/sanctioning and governence

LOL....so now I have to go to Barry ON on May 4th weekend for ANOTHER Provincials??? Sounds like a good plan! 2 cracks at pulling myself out of the provincial cellar. Are they going to give me an 16:59.59 IM style last place glory???

Here is a funny thing. I did both a 200 fly and a 200 IM on back to back intervals and timed both. I was faster in the 200 fly today and 1 min later I was 2 seconds slower in my 200 IM than racing on the weekend. I'll need to figure out how you guys start off the blocks and hammer full throttle. I had the problem in mass start triathlon after around 75m of hammering and lactate catching up. But in short race there is not a ton of time to "ease in"!!!
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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March 4th, 1650 yards, 20:59.95. (Male, 4 days before my 49th birthday).

This is a little late, but the final results with the splits necessary for me to perform the autopsy on my self-destruction were slow to be posted. I promised Monty in the March Aquatic Mammal thread I'd share the post-mortum. Here it is.

I had gone 20:53 six weeks earlier. I paced by perceive effort, and was pretty pleased with the reasonably consistent splits, especially as this was my first 1650 race in 2 years, and only my second as a Masters swimmer. I was, however, a little over 20 seconds short of achieving my goal of a National Qualifying Time.

After that, I did a short sprint training block with the aim of achieving an NQT in the 100 free at a February meet, and managed to do so. I then circled back around to distance pace work, trying to improve my endurance with longer repeats.

I knew that at at the pool for the March meet, I would be able to see the splits on the scoreboard every 50. My plan was to pace off the board, trying to hold 37.50's. I hung on through about 750, but then posted 4 consecutive 38.lows, and was fighting awfully hard to do that. By that point, I knew I wasn't likely to make my goal time, but thought sure I was on pace to set a new PR. (I was, indeed, over 7 seconds ahead my PB pace at that time) I decided to give it one more surge to see if I could get back under 37.50. It didn't happen. And then the piano fell out of the sky and landed on squarely on my back. I was driving the struggle bus just to hold 39's from 1000 yards on. I even posted a 40.low on one 50. I managed to rally a little bit for the last 100, but it was far from the close I'd had in January. Over the last 650 yards, I went 14 seconds slower than I'd gone six weeks prior. Final time was 6 seconds slower. My attitude going in was "I'm gonna go 37.50s to the end, or die trying." The latter is what happened.

I'm still working on 1650 pace. I managed to go 20:55 off a wall start, after a sprint set, at Masters practice a couple weeks ago. I actually pulled a 20:51 without paddles last week. I think I've made a little progress, but it looks like I'm gonna have to go full-Leroy at the "last chance" meet in April with a taper (well, as much as you can taper from 12k yards a week), shave, and a tech suit, to give myself the best shot at getting that NQT.

I'll post an update after that event.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:
March 4th, 1650 yards, 20:59.95. (Male, 4 days before my 49th birthday).

This is a little late, but the final results with the splits necessary for me to perform the autopsy on my self-destruction were slow to be posted. I promised Monty in the March Aquatic Mammal thread I'd share the post-mortum. Here it is.

I had gone 20:53 six weeks earlier. I paced by perceive effort, and was pretty pleased with the reasonably consistent splits, especially as this was my first 1650 race in 2 years, and only my second as a Masters swimmer. I was, however, a little over 20 seconds short of achieving my goal of a National Qualifying Time.

After that, I did a short sprint training block with the aim of achieving an NQT in the 100 free at a February meet, and managed to do so. I then circled back around to distance pace work, trying to improve my endurance with longer repeats.

I knew that at at the pool for the March meet, I would be able to see the splits on the scoreboard every 50. My plan was to pace off the board, trying to hold 37.50's. I hung on through about 750, but then posted 4 consecutive 38.lows, and was fighting awfully hard to do that. By that point, I knew I wasn't likely to make my goal time, but thought sure I was on pace to set a new PR. (I was, indeed, over 7 seconds ahead my PB pace at that time) I decided to give it one more surge to see if I could get back under 37.50. It didn't happen. And then the piano fell out of the sky and landed on squarely on my back. I was driving the struggle bus just to hold 39's from 1000 yards on. I even posted a 40.low on one 50. I managed to rally a little bit for the last 100, but it was far from the close I'd had in January. Over the last 650 yards, I went 14 seconds slower than I'd gone six weeks prior. Final time was 6 seconds slower. My attitude going in was "I'm gonna go 37.50s to the end, or die trying." The latter is what happened.

I'm still working on 1650 pace. I managed to go 20:55 off a wall start, after a sprint set, at Masters practice a couple weeks ago. I actually pulled a 20:51 without paddles last week. I think I've made a little progress, but it looks like I'm gonna have to go full-Leroy at the "last chance" meet in April with a taper (well, as much as you can taper from 12k yards a week), shave, and a tech suit, to give myself the best shot at getting that NQT.

I'll post an update after that event.

Awesome work....I would think a full gas 1500m race feels like a 20 min bike FTP test in terms of pacing or a 5K running race. You're playing around with being on the edge of blowing up and trying to sit on that pace/number and not overcook it. there are two swim meets coming up with a 1500m on April 21 weekend and May 4 weekend that I may give a try now that you guys got me on the swim event treadmill. What is the National Qualify Time for your age group?

I started looking at various qualifying times at events just as a target for a number to aim for. I looked at the 55-59 times which I would be in not next year but the year after that so I would have 2 years to technically improve while my engine declines over 2 years (or I hope not). I need to do 22:34 in the 1500m free, 6:32 in the 400 IM, 2:55 in the 200 IM, 3:06 in the 200 fly, 1:18 in the 100 fly (all meters)

Of the above, based on where I stand today and my progression as a swimmer, I believe if I can technically improve all aspects of the sport in 2 years, the 1500m is in reach, as is the 400 IM (today I am just over 1 min off and most of that is back, breast and really bad turns). The 200 fly is a stretch goal, but I think if I can get my 50m off a wall push down below 40 seconds, then I have a chance, because I don't fade as much as most people (maybe something about 31 IM's worth of fading less than other guys). I don't think the 2:55 200 IM is feasible but never say never
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Our provincials are May 5th. Provisionally, I'm looking at the 200 free, 50 fly, 1500 free, and 100IM. I'm slightly ticked off about the last time I swam the 1500, so even though it isn't my favourite event, I need redemption.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:

I would think a full gas 1500m race feels like a 20 min bike FTP test in terms of pacing or a 5K running race. You're playing around with being on the edge of blowing up and trying to sit on that pace/number and not overcook it.


Yeah, I think that's a good analogy. Trying to increase my pace by 1 sec per 100 put me over the cliff. That's roughly equivalent to a run pace differential of 5 seconds/mile.



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What is the National Qualify Time for your age group?


20:33.30 for M 45-49 1650. In general, the USMS Short Course cuts are harder than Long Course cuts, and the distance event cuts (200+) are harder than the sprint cuts. Since there's no Long Course Nationals this year (US is hosting the Masters Pan Ams. instead), there aren't any Long Course cuts published. But last year, the Men's 45-49 1500 was 21:34.51. That "converts" to a ~21:09 1650.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Mar 29, 18 9:50
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
Our provincials are May 5th. Provisionally, I'm looking at the 200 free, 50 fly, 1500 free, and 100IM. I'm slightly ticked off about the last time I swam the 1500, so even though it isn't my favourite event, I need redemption.

Awesome. I just signed up for a local swim meet next weekend: 100 free, 50 fly, 50 back, 50 breast, 50 free, 100 IM. So I will have official times in all of those shortly. Good luck in the 1500m free...that's a wind range to optimized from 50 fly all the way up to 1500 free!!! Do you do any weight work for the 50 fly. I would think doing something like sets of 15-20 lat pulldowns with 100% body weight would translate directly (assuming similar stroke count and force application) and similar amount of quad extensions with 100% body weight or more? Minimally the physiology should translate (ie fast twitch force production).
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Our provincials are May 5th. Provisionally, I'm looking at the 200 free, 50 fly, 1500 free, and 100IM. I'm slightly ticked off about the last time I swam the 1500, so even though it isn't my favourite event, I need redemption.


Awesome. I just signed up for a local swim meet next weekend: 100 free, 50 fly, 50 back, 50 breast, 50 free, 100 IM. So I will have official times in all of those shortly. Good luck in the 1500m free...that's a wind range to optimized from 50 fly all the way up to 1500 free!!! Do you do any weight work for the 50 fly. I would think doing something like sets of 15-20 lat pulldowns with 100% body weight would translate directly (assuming similar stroke count and force application) and similar amount of quad extensions with 100% body weight or more? Minimally the physiology should translate (ie fast twitch force production).

Weights? Hell no.

When I was young (late high school and university) I spent plenty of time in the weight room. I tried going back last year, realized how much I dislike lifting, and avoid it all costs now.

I wouldn't call it "optimized" for both. 1500 is probably my weakest freestyle event, and 50 fly is my weaker fly event. My strength is the VO2max events at the 100-200 distance, when I'm in shape, that is.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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For butterfly, work the triceps and it helps the other strokes also. Lat pulldowns also help. Do some leg presses for your underwaters...dont discount the benefit of a good push off the wall with a tight streamline when racing.
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Re: ST Winter Virtual Swim Meet [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
Our provincials are May 5th. Provisionally, I'm looking at the 200 free, 50 fly, 1500 free, and 100IM. I'm slightly ticked off about the last time I swam the 1500, so even though it isn't my favourite event, I need redemption.


Awesome. I just signed up for a local swim meet next weekend: 100 free, 50 fly, 50 back, 50 breast, 50 free, 100 IM. So I will have official times in all of those shortly. Good luck in the 1500m free...that's a wind range to optimized from 50 fly all the way up to 1500 free!!! Do you do any weight work for the 50 fly. I would think doing something like sets of 15-20 lat pulldowns with 100% body weight would translate directly (assuming similar stroke count and force application) and similar amount of quad extensions with 100% body weight or more? Minimally the physiology should translate (ie fast twitch force production).


Weights? Hell no.

When I was young (late high school and university) I spent plenty of time in the weight room. I tried going back last year, realized how much I dislike lifting, and avoid it all costs now.

I wouldn't call it "optimized" for both. 1500 is probably my weakest freestyle event, and 50 fly is my weaker fly event. My strength is the VO2max events at the 100-200 distance, when I'm in shape, that is.

Hey I see that Swim Ontario has the Ontario Masters on May 5th in Barrie and I can do a 1500m there....but the cut off for registration for Nationals in 29 April.....so can you use the May 5th time after the fact or you need a time to register. I sent a message the the meet organizers. There is a Quebec Master Championships weekend of April 21 in Quebec City, so it might be worth going to that to have another round of pushing myself and do a 1500m (....both Quebec City and Barrie are exact same drive time from home and if I have to spend money on hotel for a nite it seems like Quebec City is better than Barrie LOL!
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