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IM Bike TSS
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wcb
Feb 15, 18 14:52
Post #1 of 14 (2242 views)
I'm running an initial analysis on BestBikeSplit for the updated Whistler course. The course this year is ~7500 ft of climb. I'm having a hard time getting a TSS under 300 due to the elevation. With an IF of 0.65 I'm looking at a 6:45 bike split on 285 TSS. Honestly that's longer than I prefer to be on a bike.

I know the general rule of thumb is to try and keep TSS below ~285 to have running legs left. My three IM's to date have been pancake flat (Florida, Cozumel, North Carolina). For a bike with +5k of elevation does targeting ~285 TSS still hold? Or should I target more / less?

TIA.
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Re: IM Bike TSS [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM
Feb 15, 18 14:53
Post #2 of 14 (2237 views)
I think you're about 2000 feet short of the actual elevation gain by most accounts
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Re: IM Bike TSS [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
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wcb
Feb 15, 18 15:04
Post #3 of 14 (2223 views)
Just looked at the thread on the new course - confirms what you're saying.

Ouch. I may be looking at a 7 hour ride with dead legs to start the run.
Last edited by: wcb: Feb 15, 18 15:04
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Re: IM Bike TSS [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM
Feb 15, 18 15:14
Post #4 of 14 (2208 views)
Yeah. Someone posted there they ran it through BBS and came up with something like 15 minutes more than the previous year (in the mid 5s I think). Not sure how that works. I did Whistler in 2013 and was 6:04 on the bike. I could see adding another hour..... Which would suck. And not altogether sure another hour would make me feel any better on the run than a 6:45. As I recall the run, while not hilly, is not pancake flat...
Last edited by: ChrisM: Feb 15, 18 15:15
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Re: IM Bike TSS [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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SteveM
Feb 15, 18 15:18
Post #5 of 14 (2198 views)
For a 70.3 I'll often dump a few .zwo's from BBS so I can simulate the power plan in Zwift.

I wouldn't suggest you ride the whole course, but if there's a large amount of power variation in the last half or third you could see what running off that is like.

Also might be worth checking if the plan is viable (ie. can you actually ride the target power with the course gradients & your bikes gearing with a reasonable cadence)
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Re: IM Bike TSS [ In reply to ]
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wcb
Feb 16, 18 7:00
Post #6 of 14 (2009 views)
So the consensus is possibly target a lower TSS to keep from getting destroyed on the run?
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Re: IM Bike TSS [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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tuckandgo
Feb 16, 18 7:38
Post #7 of 14 (1963 views)
If you are that end of the race, I'd concentrate on doing the bike at 'all day pace', and just going with the flow. Rather than worry about 285TSS blah blah, FTP, power, etc etc.
Perhaps ' if you aren't enjoying it then you are going too hard' as a gauge.

Make sure you don't over cook it on any hills. If the hills are long (I know the area but don't know the course) use the downhill for recovery. (not normal IM advice but if you are out for 7 hours.....)

Practice some long hilly rides to get a feel for what works for you.

Practice running tired. (tired, not just easy brics)
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Re: IM Bike TSS [wcb] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery
Feb 16, 18 7:48
Post #8 of 14 (1945 views)
I usually hit a TSS of 315 to 345 for IM bike legs. I think keeping lower intensity and being on the bike for a longer period of time can take its toll.

Why are you aiming for such a low number? Past experience?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: IM Bike TSS [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes
Feb 16, 18 7:57
Post #9 of 14 (1924 views)
colinlaughery wrote:
I usually hit a TSS of 315 to 345 for IM bike legs. I think keeping lower intensity and being on the bike for a longer period of time can take its toll.

Why are you aiming for such a low number? Past experience?

Man that is really high. How do you run off of that? I run well off of 265-285 TSS. Going any lower takes away the advantage I get on my bike and I don't run any faster. Going higher than 300 compromises my run.
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Re: IM Bike TSS [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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sch340
Feb 16, 18 8:00
Post #10 of 14 (1919 views)
I know that many folks reference Friel's chart here with respect to IM TSS:

https://wpassets.trainingpeaks.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/01/howtocheatusingpowermeterinironman-2.png


Basically, the recommendation is to keep it under 300 TSS unless you are a very strong, proven IM runner.


To the OP, I would just plan on a long day and take in nutrition accordingly. No shortcuts unfortunately on a course like that.
Strava
Last edited by: sch340: Feb 16, 18 8:00
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Re: IM Bike TSS [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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colinlaughery
Feb 16, 18 8:00
Post #11 of 14 (1916 views)
turdburgler wrote:
colinlaughery wrote:
I usually hit a TSS of 315 to 345 for IM bike legs. I think keeping lower intensity and being on the bike for a longer period of time can take its toll.

Why are you aiming for such a low number? Past experience?

Man that is really high. How do you run off of that? I run well off of 265-285 TSS. Going any lower takes away the advantage I get on my bike and I don't run any faster. Going higher than 300 compromises my run.

Usually a 3:05 to 3:10. I guess I’ve never focused on TSS for bike. I always just look at 80 to 83 percent of FTP. Comes down to fitness and experience in the end. The more you do, the higher you can push?
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New Training/Racing Log - http://www.earthdaykid.com/blog --- Old Training/Racing Log - http://colinlaughery.blogspot.com
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Re: IM Bike TSS [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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sch340
Feb 16, 18 8:03
Post #12 of 14 (1905 views)
colinlaughery wrote:
Usually a 3:05 to 3:10. I guess I’ve never focused on TSS for bike. I always just look at 80 to 83 percent of FTP. Comes down to fitness and experience in the end. The more you do, the higher you can push?

Well, you are probably on the bike course for less than 5 hours. If you spent 6.5 hours on the bike at that intensity I doubt you would be running a 3:05 after that :)
Strava
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Re: IM Bike TSS [colinlaughery] [ In reply to ]
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likes_bikes
Feb 16, 18 8:07
Post #13 of 14 (1892 views)
That is impressive! I'm right around 3h20 off of ~280TSS. Caveat being I came from a college swim background and lifelong on the bike, so the marathon is newer to me and my weakness right now. I've only seriously been working on the run for the past few years so I am hopeful to bring the run down to wear it should be given the strengths I have in the other areas. I am hopeful that my dedication to running through this winter will pay off.

A 3h marathon after a 345 TSS is insane.
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Re: IM Bike TSS [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisM
Feb 16, 18 9:56
Post #14 of 14 (1771 views)
Haha, I know everything is relative, but I love how a 3:20 IM marathon is your "weakness." I can't even imagine doing that standalone.
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