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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [alfonzo] [ In reply to ]
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alfonzo wrote:
And...She is still breastfeeding!!!! Superwoman :-)
That's great stuff right there.

Btw, just from that bit in the video, she's clearly lovely and super marketable. Hope one of the big companies really gets behind her and supports her.
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
Mark Lemmon wrote:
Slowman wrote:
Mark Lemmon wrote:
What if Jorgensen would have continued to run post college with the same focus and passion that she had for triathlon beginning in 2010? At what age would she have run a 15:15 5K?


i don't know that focus and passion would've done it. several of us were having precisely this discussion a half hour ago. had she stayed a pure runner in 2009? the consensus from our group: she'd be working in a cubicle right now. her triathlon interlude had as much to do with the 15:15 as anything else.


So the triathlon interlude was powerful enough to keep her going as an elite runner for 4 years? I assume you think she'll end up doing more S & B than she talked about in her interviews after making the switch to the run focus.


i don't know how much S&R she'll do. all i know is, i have a hard time imagining her getting from 15:52 almost a decade ago to 15:15 last week, with any sort of objective analysis ending up with 14:55 or 14:50 within reach, without spending the last decade the way she spent it. just like verzbicas, who came up as a triathlete. how much faster than 8:29 do you think he would've run in HS if he'd came up as a pure runner?

i don't have any agenda here. i never believed, ever, that a background as a triathlete would better prepare one for running than pure running. but, i can point to a half-dozen right off the bat who caused me to rethink what i thought.

and, btw, it's worth considering that the lady who won gwen's race did a fair bit of swim & run to come back from injury over the last year. don't kill the messenger.

Thats always an interesting question. On the latest On-Coaching podcast episode, Alan Webb speaks about his training. At one point he swam 3-4 times a week with a masters group in the morning and he also did strenuous weight lifting. He said that altitude training never worked for him, but lifting and swimming were kind of his "altitude training". When he stopped doing it in the week before a race, he felt really fast with a lot of pop in his legs.

So when you do a lot of other hard stuff besides the running, the running gets harder, just like at altitude. Then you taper and do away the cross training and you feel like a million bucks. Thats my theorie at least.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [alfonzo] [ In reply to ]
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alfonzo wrote:
And...She is still breastfeeding!!!! Superwoman :-)
\

that's astonishing.. this level of performance while still breastfeeding is just amazing. golly.

"It is a good feeling for old men who have begun to fear failure, any sort of failure, to set a schedule for exercise and stick to it. If an aging man can run a distance of three miles, for instance, he knows that whatever his other failures may be, he is not completely wasted away." Romain Gary, SI interview
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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I believe he is talking about the 2011 London ITU WTS event. There ended up being a huge group, maybe 50 women all heading out of T2 together and Gwen had a great run to finish 2nd and auto qualify for the 2012 Olympic team...
Last edited by: Uncle Phil: Feb 13, 18 16:03
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Uncle Phil] [ In reply to ]
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Uncle Phil wrote:
I believe he is talking about the 2011 London ITU WTS event. There ended up being a huge group, maybe 50 women all heading out of T2 together and Gwen had a great run to finish 2nd and auto qualify for the 2012 Olympic team...

Ah, I see, thanks for this info. I still wonder if the "oops" that Brooks spoke of was really an "oops"; I just find it hard to believe that, if those three women had not "soft-pedaled' at the start of the bike, that she would have never become the top Oly tri woman in the world. That's more or less what it sounded like to me anyway.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]
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So when you do a lot of other hard stuff besides the running, the running gets harder, just like at altitude. Then you taper and do away the cross training and you feel like a million bucks. Thats my theorie at least.


Generally I see all of the European, and North American runners doing most/all of this "other" training, but the East Africans - Kenyans and Ethiopians - they just run!

You never see a picture of Eliud Kipchoge swimming, water-running, running in some zero-G unit, weight training etc . . . In fact here's a few pages from his training diary - http://www.sweatelite.co/...orld-record-attempt/ Yikes!

Why the difference?


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Feb 14, 18 5:57
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Why the difference?

I know the point you are trying to make and completely agree with you. I retired from tri a few years ago and just run and have never been faster.

I've seen that a few times and always get a kick out of the fact that people seem to focus on his mileage/kilometers. It roughly equals 110 miles or 180 kilometers per week. People see that and think they've got to run that much to run their best. But, they fail to realize that at his pace (even his easy pace) that's only about 12 hours a week of running.
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
So when you do a lot of other hard stuff besides the running, the running gets harder, just like at altitude. Then you taper and do away the cross training and you feel like a million bucks. Thats my theorie at least.


Generally I see all of the European, and North American runners doing most/all of this "other" training, but the East Africans - Kenyans and Ethiopians - they just run!

You never see a picture of Eliud Kipchoge swimming, water-running, running in some zero-G unit, weight training etc . . . In fact here's a few pages from his training diary - http://www.sweatelite.co/...orld-record-attempt/ Yikes!

Why the difference?

Yeah, but the Kenyans are doing altitude training all the time. For Webb that didn't work so he had to make his sea level training harder. XD

No, I am just kidding. I known that the best runners only run (maybe with some core or Wrights). And I agree that the best way to run fast is to run and recover from running.

And that is kind of a dilemma for me. My talent lies in running and it is my best sport and I really want to find out how fast I can get. And I love running. But I also love five hour training days and training a lot.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [logella] [ In reply to ]
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I've seen that a few times and always get a kick out of the fact that people seem to focus on his mileage/kilometers. It roughly equals 110 miles or 180 kilometers per week. People see that and think they've got to run that much to run their best. But, they fail to realize that at his pace (even his easy pace) that's only about 12 hours a week of running.


One key thing about Kenyan running, and that is never seen in these basic training diaries is that EVERY run is a Build Run even the "easy" runs or those 15Km runs with no other information are done as follows: They always start off ridiculously easy ( we could run with them for the first couple of miles), and then gradually the pace starts to build so that at the end they are often running at sub 4:30 - 5 min/mile pace!

This is key for two main reasons:

- as almost EVERY day they are touching the very upper end of are best aerobic/tempo pace

- you are mentally and physically making negative splitting and closing fast, something that becomes automatic

They have tried to figure out why the Kenyans are so good. One theory put forward is that over the course of a year, they spend more time running at that upper tempo pace than other runners - note they are touching it a little bit each day!!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
I've seen that a few times and always get a kick out of the fact that people seem to focus on his mileage/kilometers. It roughly equals 110 miles or 180 kilometers per week. People see that and think they've got to run that much to run their best. But, they fail to realize that at his pace (even his easy pace) that's only about 12 hours a week of running.

One key thing about Kenyan running, and that is never seen in these basic training diaries is that EVERY run is a Build Run even the "easy" runs or those 15Km runs with no other information are done as follows: They always start off ridiculously easy ( we could run with them for the first couple of miles), and then gradually the pace starts to build so that at the end they are often running at sub 4:30 - 5 min/mile pace!
This is key for two main reasons:
- as almost EVERY day they are touching the very upper end of are best aerobic/tempo pace
- you are mentally and physically making negative splitting and closing fast, something that becomes automatic
They have tried to figure out why the Kenyans are so good. One theory put forward is that over the course of a year, they spend more time running at that upper tempo pace than other runners - note they are touching it a little bit each day!!

Not that i'm any great runner but I ran this way the first 3-4 years of my tri "career" everyone said "oh you're running too hard every day" so i switched to trying to run "easy" most days and "hard" once a week. My times stagnated so i went back to this style of training, such that i'm gasping at end of every run. I'm running faster ever since switching back. Further, i read an interview a few yrs ago with the fastest amateur half-marathoner in the U.S., can't recall his name, but he ran around 1:03 IIRC. His training consistently solely of running 13-15 mi/day, 7 day/wk, and running last 3 miles as hard as possible. No intervals or the like.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Over the last winter, I only run at continuous pace and did some short hillsprints and strides to complement it. No Vo2max intervalls, no trackwork and nothing that was painful or uncomfortable.

A lot of those easy runs would start as fast or slow as I felt like and then, on good days, I would pick up the pace every 5-10 minutes. I made sure that I never really had to push and just let it flow. I waited until I felt good at a certain pace and then tried to relax and go a bit faster. Usually the last 10 minutes I was breathing a bit harder but everything was under control.

When I did my first race in the spring, I broke my 10k pb right away by half a minute. I guess that brisk running at relaxed effort were the key to a fast time.

The real hard stuff is important for sure. But I guess a lot of agegroupers to too much of it and forget that you need to be able to float at pace. It's not all about no pain no gain.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Not that i'm any great runner but I ran this way the first 3-4 years of my tri "career" everyone said "oh you're running too hard every day" so i switched to trying to run "easy" most days and "hard" once a week. My times stagnated so i went back to this style of training, such that i'm gasping at end of every run. I'm running faster ever since switching back. Further, i read an interview a few yrs ago with the fastest amateur half-marathoner in the U.S., can't recall his name, but he ran around 1:03 IIRC. His training consistently solely of running 13-15 mi/day, 7 day/wk, and running last 3 miles as hard as possible. No intervals or the like.


There's a tendency to make running overly complicated - just look at Kipchoge's program from 30,000 ft. It's pretty straight-forward and basic - yes there is hard a very fast running - and this is the world's best marathon runner, but his program is not that complicated. Everyone huddles around these training programs looking for the secret workouts, or the silver bullets . . . there aren't any!

Ounce good base running fitness and endurance is established, the build runs, where in the final 10 minutes or so of most runs you are touching the upper reaches of zone-4 in those final 10 minutes, maybe all you need, for some pretty good 5K - 1/2 Marathon race times. The trick as the Kenyan's do is to make the first 5 - 15 minutes of those runs, ridiculously easy! Most start too fast, with all training.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Not that i'm any great runner but I ran this way the first 3-4 years of my tri "career" everyone said "oh you're running too hard every day" so i switched to trying to run "easy" most days and "hard" once a week. My times stagnated so i went back to this style of training, such that i'm gasping at end of every run. I'm running faster ever since switching back. Further, i read an interview a few yrs ago with the fastest amateur half-marathoner in the U.S., can't recall his name, but he ran around 1:03 IIRC. His training consistently solely of running 13-15 mi/day, 7 day/wk, and running last 3 miles as hard as possible. No intervals or the like.


There's a tendency to make running overly complicated - just look at Kipchoge's program from 30,000 ft. It's pretty straight-forward and basic - yes there is hard a very fast running - and this is the world's best marathon runner, but his program is not that complicated. Everyone huddles around these training programs looking for the secret workouts, or the silver bullets . . . there aren't any!
Once good base running fitness and endurance is established, the build runs, where in the final 10 minutes or so of most runs you are touching the upper reaches of zone-4 in those final 10 minutes, maybe all you need, for some pretty good 5K - 1/2 Marathon race times. The trick as the Kenyans do is to make the first 5 - 15 minutes of those runs, ridiculously easy! Most start too fast, with all training.

Ya, i see this all the time espec in the pool. Guys/girls burn up the first 50 but the it's all downhill after that. :)


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Gwen stalking update #2:

I see Nike Peagasus today.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPM0nR-hbvM

YouTube
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Re: Gwen’s first race back - Husky 5k [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
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mungub50 wrote:
Pretty impressive return to racing for Gwen today at the Husky 5k. Second place by 0.12 to Emily Infeld and in 15:15. Not too bad. I think she may be on the “real” runners radar now.

https://static.gohuskies.com/...20918/180209F003.htm

That about the same 5k PRs as Desiree Linden and Amy Cragg, 2:21 - 2:22 marathoners. She may be on to something.
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