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Home Electrical Advice
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Currently in the process of purchasing a home. Built in 1955, the home has had various work done to it over the 6 decades it has been around. One thing has been that electricians appear to have installed GFI outlet covers on many outlets that are not actually 3 wire. (In my head anyway) this is not a huge deal as I would simply not plug in phone/computer into an unprotected outlet, and also be wary of water around ANY outlet, whether it's allegedly GFI or not.

Does anyone have any experiences with products such as this that seem to offer a surge protector for your house (at the panel?). Would this be a way to mitigate any issues surrounding the "fake" 3 wire outlets? (vs. re-wiring as necessary).
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Currently in the process of purchasing a home. Built in 1955, the home has had various work done to it over the 6 decades it has been around. One thing has been that electricians appear to have installed GFI outlet covers on many outlets that are not actually 3 wire. (In my head anyway) this is not a huge deal as I would simply not plug in phone/computer into an unprotected outlet, and also be wary of water around ANY outlet, whether it's allegedly GFI or not.

Does anyone have any experiences with products such as this that seem to offer a surge protector for your house (at the panel?). Would this be a way to mitigate any issues surrounding the "fake" 3 wire outlets? (vs. re-wiring as necessary).

Are you saying that GFI receptacles were installed in boxes that previously had 2-prong receptacles? That might be OK (in the sense that it's not an NEC violation). It's not optimal, but it's better than an unprotected 2-prong receptacle. See e.g. http://www.ecmweb.com/...grounded-receptacles, http://mbi-us.com/...2-prong-receptacles/.

One way to look at it is that a properly grounded 3-prong receptacle is a belt. A GFI-protected receptacle is a set of suspenders. So a GFI and good grounding is like a belt and suspenders. A GFI-protected 2-prong receptacle should be safe, as long as the GFI is functioning properly.

A household surge protector won't do anything to alleviate any grounding issues. Two separate things.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [eb] [ In reply to ]
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Ok sorry, let me try and explain what I think I know better, ha. Multiple outlet boxes have GFI "trim" installed despite being only 2 wired. So I was told that you either upgrade the system to 3 wire (expensive, right?) or return the trim to 2 prong. This was from a home inspector, however, and not an electrician (although he is a contractor). Damn, now I'm confused.

But I now realize why a home surge protector isn't really what I'm looking for.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Wire hot!
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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Do you mean the plate is for a gfi or are you talking about the receptacle ?

I own a house built in the 50’s , my second one from that era. If I remember correctly having a gfi on an old line is like a surge protector for the string it’s on. It’s a cheap way vs rewiring. I’m not sure you need the ground on it but don’t hold me to that. And you’d probably be better off having one. It’s been awhile since I’ve dealt with this so happy to be educated.

My old house I switched out all the old two prong to 3 prong without a ground. When we sold the buyers inspector said all the outlets weren’t grounded and needed to be fixed. I told him no, I’d be happy to give him $2.50 an outlet to buy new 2 prong but it was on him to exchange. I also said I would not cover the cost of buying adapters for all his appliances that required it. He took cash.

Rewiring the house would be expensive. Also most likely will require lots of plaster cutting.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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A GFCI receptacle is a code compliant replacement for a two wire receptacle. In fact manufacturers include a small sticker which is supposed to be adhered to the device stating that is being used to replace a two wire receptacle.

A GFCI outlet will not perform any more surge protection than any other outlet.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Ok sorry, let me try and explain what I think I know better, ha. Multiple outlet boxes have GFI "trim" installed despite being only 2 wired. So I was told that you either upgrade the system to 3 wire (expensive, right?) or return the trim to 2 prong. This was from a home inspector, however, and not an electrician (although he is a contractor). Damn, now I'm confused.

But I now realize why a home surge protector isn't really what I'm looking for.

That sounds strange. I'm not an electrician, but all the GFI receptacles I've ever installed come with their own trim plate which is completely different from the trim plate for a regular receptacle. The GFI trim plate usually has a single big rectangular hole in it, as opposed to the two oval holes in a normal trim plate.

Is it possible that the inspector's "trim" is referring to the GFI label that's required on a 2-wire receptacle that is downstream of a GFI receptacle? A GFI receptacle can protect all the other receptacles on the same circuit if it's properly installed; the downstream receptacles are supposed to be labeled accordingly.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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jkhayc wrote:
Currently in the process of purchasing a home. Built in 1955, the home has had various work done to it over the 6 decades it has been around. One thing has been that electricians appear to have installed GFI outlet covers on many outlets that are not actually 3 wire. (In my head anyway) this is not a huge deal as I would simply not plug in phone/computer into an unprotected outlet, and also be wary of water around ANY outlet, whether it's allegedly GFI or not.

Does anyone have any experiences with products such as this that seem to offer a surge protector for your house (at the panel?). Would this be a way to mitigate any issues surrounding the "fake" 3 wire outlets? (vs. re-wiring as necessary).


Everyone calls them GFI, but they are actually GFCI. No clue why that came about. Anyway, the GFCI is suppose to be the first outlet on the circuit. In other words, the wife comes from the panel, then to the GFCI. Then, you can feed other outlets or lights from the GFCI. Generally speaking, GFCI is usually only used in bathrooms and kitchens near water. Lastly, depending on what your doing, there are 15 amp and 20 amp circuits, so make sure you use the proper outlet on the proper circuit. It is acceptable to still use 15 amp devices on 20 amp circuits in the correct application.

Realize using a GFCI without hooking up a ground wire and if it is not the first outlet from the panel, then it use basically a really expensive outlet and is pointless.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jharris] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe I misunderstood what you wrote, but I can't see how not having a ground on the GFI (GFCI) is relevant. The GFI is tripped when a difference in currents (or more directly the magnetic flux through a sensing coil) reaches a certain magnitude, something like a few milliamps. If I am missing something, I'd sure like to know as I discuss this device every so often.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [jkhayc] [ In reply to ]
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As some others have said, installing a GFCI receptacle on a 2-wire circuit is a legitimate thing to do, although it should be marked with a sticker that says "No Equipment Ground". It will still provide protection to that, and downstream receptacles, the way a GFCI is intended.

I'm not sure how far into the process of buying the home you are, but I would suggest you have an electrician take a look at the house to give you an honest assessment of the system. Don't rely on a home inspector to do this. The home inspector may be very good, or they may not have any particular electrical experience or knowledge.

You mentioned you have 2-wire outlets so you likely have a system that is original to the house. Houses built in the 1950s had significantly less demand for electricity than we have today. You also mentioned the house has had various work done to it. That could mean anything and it could also mean that you have somewhat of mixed bag of wiring in the house. It may be fine now, but if you find yourself making improvements to the house you may also have to bring certain aspects of your electrical system up to current code, and you find very quickly that you wished you had dealt with this now rather than after you've bought the house.
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Re: Home Electrical Advice [bm] [ In reply to ]
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"As some others have said, installing a GFCI receptacle on a 2-wire circuit is a legitimate thing to do, although it should be marked with a sticker that says "No Equipment Ground". It will still provide protection to that, and downstream receptacles, the way a GFCI is intended."

I believe this is what is actually going on.

"I'm not sure how far into the process of buying the home you are, but I would suggest you have an electrician take a look at the house to give you an honest assessment of the system. Don't rely on a home inspector to do this. The home inspector may be very good, or they may not have any particular electrical experience or knowledge."

I agree that this would have been a good idea. We got a plumbing scope, HVAC, Roof, and pool inspection but the electrical inspection would have been a nice thing to do. This is our first home - we're far along in the process just waiting on closing and I'm doing a lot of research - and we are learning as we go, which obviously has it's pros and cons.


"You mentioned you have 2-wire outlets so you likely have a system that is original to the house. Houses built in the 1950s had significantly less demand for electricity than we have today. You also mentioned the house has had various work done to it. That could mean anything and it could also mean that you have somewhat of mixed bag of wiring in the house. It may be fine now, but if you find yourself making improvements to the house you may also have to bring certain aspects of your electrical system up to current code, and you find very quickly that you wished you had dealt with this now rather than after you've bought the house."

The house has an upgrade panel - 200amp service - with room in the panel. There are only two wires that are "old" - copper or aluminum I believe? - which run to a sub panel. That sub panel is old but in good shape, apparently. The rest of the house has current wiring.

The location and lot are really solid and the house is relatively old, so we know going in there are certain headaches and expected costs. We say that now...of course. Who knows what we'll say 5-10 years from now!


This thread has helped me better understand the system itself though, which has been very helpful. My terminology has also improved; I know just enough home improvement/construction stuff to be dangerous, ha!
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