School me on gas boilers

Jan 30, 18 13:36

Post #1 of 16 (1180 views)

In MA we have a state rebate program for early replacement of old boilers. My new house has an old (31 year) boiler and I'm looking to take advantage of the program. But there's a lot to look at so I thought I'd start in the most reliable place: internet message boards.

Looking for gas heat, 2,400 sq ft home in New England so probably 110-120K BTU output, hot water system for baseboard heating. Anyone have any experience, good bad or otherwise they'd want to share about their boiler?

Burnham Alpine was recommended by the plumber (who came highly recommended himself), but online I'm seeing some real bad reviews and info. Slant-fin Sentry is the one I've seen some real positive reviews for but beyond online ratings I have no experience here. Any help, thoughts, advice?

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 13:42

Post #2 of 16 (1172 views)

I'd have to look to make sure, but from pictures I think I have a Burnham boiler. Installed around 93, with baseboard radiators.

The boiler has been trouble free. I have had to replace a 2 or 3 zone valves (Honeywell), just the motor/controller, not the piping, but that's about it. At the moment, a kickspace blower isn't working and I haven't had a chance to investigate. I might have to call someone if it needs replacing. I don't think I want to deal with draining the system, etc.

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 14:00

Post #3 of 16 (1161 views)

I don't have any feedback on new systems, but in my mind, a gas boiler is one of those simple, foundational components that you only f*ck with (or replace) when it's necessary. If it currently meets your needs, I'd stick with it.

Our 2500 s.f. house is 56 years old, and we've owned it for 12 years. We run hot water baseboards using the original boiler, and the only mods (by me) have been a new thermopile ($10 part), and a new expansion tank that failed independently.

We have plans for an addition, so our hand may be forced due to capacity. If possible, I will run that original unit into the ground, because - as I said - it's one of those basic elements that you don't eliminate until it's necessary.

"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

Re: School me on gas boilers [burnman] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 14:06

Post #4 of 16 (1157 views)

burnman wrote:

I don't have any feedback on new systems, but in my mind, a gas boiler is one of those simple, foundational components that you only f*ck with (or replace) when it's necessary. If it currently meets your needs, I'd stick with it.

Well we just bought the house and the boiler is at the end of it's useful life, everyone from the realtor to the inspector to the home energy assessment guy said we should replace it. $3K rebate and 0% financing on parts+ labor in MA for early replacement. Plus we're paying a fortune in heating because it's such an old, ineffective system, $400 a month during the winter looks to be the norm and we're only turning on one zone typically, to 68-69 degrees. The boiler needs replacing :)

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 14:11

Post #5 of 16 (1157 views)

Buderus is the Cervelo of boilers. But expensive, And they believe that there are a lot of proprietary parts. We have a boiler but it feeds of forced hot air system it is a burnham and I had read very good things about it when we bought our house. It was considered an upgrade over the regular forced hot air systems that other builders were installing.

If you trust the plumber tell him what you read and ask him for his opinion. Often they will like something that they are familiar with, as we all do. Usually a boiler will last for quite a long time. So you will likely be out of your house by the time it’s an issue anyway :-)

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 14:49

Post #6 of 16 (1137 views)

I have a Peerless gas boiler. I pretty much know squadoosh about boilers. But I just had it serviced do to a “lazy pilot “. The service guy worked on our house back to the previous owner. Showed me how to oil pump and told us the boiler will last a super long time if we do the min he demonstrated.. 3000 sq ft built in the 50’s with just about no insulation in the walls. Set at 68° keeps the house pretty toasty.

"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 14:54

Post #7 of 16 (1135 views)

There are other programs through mass saves that you should look into before you replace the boiler. You can probably have the cost of air sealing and addition of insulation supplemented by the state. Usually the heat source is the least of your concerns.

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 15:51

Post #8 of 16 (1121 views)

A coworker is getting a new gas boiler next week in Shrewsbury. He's going from oil to gas. I could find out what he's going with, but he's not going to have first hand operation knowledge ;)

He did go through Mass Save and eversource.

Re: School me on gas boilers [CW in NH] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 18:30

Post #9 of 16 (1095 views)

CW in NH wrote:

There are other programs through mass saves that you should look into before you replace the boiler. You can probably have the cost of air sealing and addition of insulation supplemented by the state. Usually the heat source is the least of your concerns.

Yeah we had the whole energy audit, the guy seemed honest and straightforward and said we're fully insulated, the only thing he suggested was take advantage of the boiler rebate. Windows are newer, newer ac, etc.

I tend to think it's worthwhile to replace the boiler if it's inefficient, which it is, if we're getting good money back and can finance it at 0%. That may not last forever and if we wait a year, five years we may wind up paying full price, while also wasting dough in heat costs every month.

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Jan 30, 18 20:56

Post #10 of 16 (1071 views)

We have a steam boiler (Utica), and have gotten endless advice and education from a forum devoted to steam systems. Your question has been asked and answered by plumbers and owners over there, I highly recommend it to anyone with a steam system. It’s my second favorite forum!

https://forum.heatinghelp.com

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 18 8:22

Post #11 of 16 (987 views)

We have a Utica boiler for our hot water system and have not had any issues whatsover since installed 10 years ago. Very efficient and well known...I believer they're also made here in the USA.

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 18 11:57

Post #12 of 16 (965 views)

I live in MA also and my gas boiler is coming up on 25 years. I have considered replacing it with a more efficient unit. Where do you get the rebate from? Is this part of the MassSave program (which is a great way to get very inexpensive LED bulbs)?

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 18 14:00

Post #13 of 16 (942 views)

The average lifespan of a boiler is 20-25 years. At 31 years it's time to replace it even if it's running well it's very inefficient.
A 2400sq ft home in MA that's well insulated only needs a 80,000-90,000 btu. You don't need a 110-120k. Make sure the contractor isn't just matching the new boiler size to the old boiler size. I can guarantee your existing boiler is oversized. Go with 90&+ efficiency with and outdoor reset.

On more temperate days, the outdoor sensor will adjust the boiler water temp. Older boilers would run at 180* all day, every day whether it was 10* or 50* out. With a high efficiency condensing boiler, when it's 10* out the boiler will run at 180*, when it's 40-50* out, it may ramp down to 140-150*. You don't need as much heat when it's 50 outside vs 10 outside.

You'll save more money just because the boiler is new and more efficient. The outdoor reset just wrings out a bit more efficiency in the shoulder seasons. In the dead of winter you'll probably still be running close to 180*. You really only get the 90%+ efficiency out of the boiler when the water temp drops below 140*.

Viessmann is the gold standard of boilers. Buderus is right up there with them.

Weil McLain, Burnham, IBC, Utica, Lochinvar are all good. Sometimes parts for the Viessmann and Buderus are hard to get and they are a little quirky so if someone hasn't installed them before you can have some installation issues. Parts for the domestic boilers can be found anywhere.

Re: School me on gas boilers [HandHeartCrown] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 18 14:40

Post #14 of 16 (937 views)

HandHeartCrown wrote:

I live in MA also and my gas boiler is coming up on 25 years. I have considered replacing it with a more efficient unit. Where do you get the rebate from? Is this part of the MassSave program (which is a great way to get very inexpensive LED bulbs)?

MassSave has an early replacement program, where they'll rebate $3K of the cost of the boiler and install if it's 30+ years old and functioning, and the replacement is high efficiency.

If yours is at 25 years your outta luck but keep it in mind for down the road. The regs change year to year but in a state like MA this program will be around in half a decade.

Re: School me on gas boilers [mattr] [ In reply to ]

Feb 1, 18 14:42

Post #15 of 16 (935 views)

mattr wrote:

The average lifespan of a boiler is 20-25 years. At 31 years it's time to replace it even if it's running well it's very inefficient.
A 2400sq ft home in MA that's well insulated only needs a 80,000-90,000 btu. You don't need a 110-120k. Make sure the contractor isn't just matching the new boiler size to the old boiler size. I can guarantee your existing boiler is oversized. Go with 90&+ efficiency with and outdoor reset.

On more temperate days, the outdoor sensor will adjust the boiler water temp. Older boilers would run at 180* all day, every day whether it was 10* or 50* out. With a high efficiency condensing boiler, when it's 10* out the boiler will run at 180*, when it's 40-50* out, it may ramp down to 140-150*. You don't need as much heat when it's 50 outside vs 10 outside.

You'll save more money just because the boiler is new and more efficient. The outdoor reset just wrings out a bit more efficiency in the shoulder seasons. In the dead of winter you'll probably still be running close to 180*. You really only get the 90%+ efficiency out of the boiler when the water temp drops below 140*.

Viessmann is the gold standard of boilers. Buderus is right up there with them.

Weil McLain, Burnham, IBC, Utica, Lochinvar are all good. Sometimes parts for the Viessmann and Buderus are hard to get and they are a little quirky so if someone hasn't installed them before you can have some installation issues. Parts for the domestic boilers can be found anywhere.

That's awesome, thanks Matt!

So you do think Burnham is legit, the Alpine series in particular? I really only started this thread because I saw some piss-poor reviews online but the plumber said it's the best bang for buck and what he has in his home. I said it in the OP but he came highly recommended so I'm more willing to trust his word but it has me worried.

Re: School me on gas boilers [Brownie28] [ In reply to ]

Feb 2, 18 4:21

Post #16 of 16 (909 views)

I'd stay away from the Alpine. Our utility used them also and we didn't like them. Had some issues with them.

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