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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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The movie has an Oscar nomination for Full length documentary... Which I suspect would never have happened with the movie that he intended to make... What I think is really neat about the movie is the evolution from the movie he intended to make and to the movie he ended up making. That duality I think is pretty vital to the success and broad appeal of the end product.

The first part is pretty good to show to people to scare them out of doping... the second part to scare them out of traveling to russia...
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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I also came away with the feeling that Putin may have given the order to fuck with our election, in revenge for costing him a chance at all those medals in Rio by having his athletes banned after Sochi

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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The Forward podcast interview (episode 80)of the director Bryan Fogel is amazing
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
MadTownTRI wrote:
And it’s not like he was untrained before hand... that jump is insane. And light dude too, like 130lbs iirc from The Forward.

There's no way he had the results he had before doping on 250W threshold. I believe he was likely doping before doing the documentary, explaining why he didn't get massively better in the actual race.

At 250 watts a 130 lb. (59kg) person puts out 4.24 w/kg. That isn't Tour winning, but he gets a much better draft than most people (being small) and some crafty wheel sucking can certainly help save energy for the climbs. Now if his FTP is closer to only 260 or 270 he starts to look pretty competitive amongst non-doped amateurs.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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seriously!?!?!?

that is nuts!
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [daved] [ In reply to ]
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daved wrote:
seriously!?!?!?

that is nuts!

Yup...sounds about right.

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Bumping an old thread, but I had to. Such a great documentary! I’m saving the lance Armstrong podcast for my next trainer session. Makes me even more sick about the O.A.R. Being allowed to compete in South Korea. Mind blowing.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. Watched it last week. The degree of state sponsorship was/ is mind blowing. Developing technology to re-open sample bottles to beat the tests, all of which was later proven by analysing the bottles for stress/ abrasions/ scratch marks. It is like Team Sky ^ 10. If you have the resources, you can beat the tests.

I also agree with the earlier comment that, what makes the documentary so fascinating is how it starts out about one thing (an amateur cyclist who wants to dope to perform better, but show the tests can be beaten) and yet ends up being about something completely different. I do wonder if there wasn't more to getting Grigory out of Russia than just sending him a plane ticket. I mean, this guy is now under witness protection. The idea that he just had to catch a flight to leave seems a bit simplistic.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [daved] [ In reply to ]
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daved wrote:
Im surprised there have not been more threads or even a thread about this.
Just watched this, its crazy.
A must see for most everyone on this forum.
Cycling. Drugs. Russia. The Olympics. WADA.
Maybe its just me, but... WOW.

Yeah I had the same reaction. Didn't know anything about it and just thought it was a doco about some guy testing out PEDS, then WOW....
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... Oscar Winner for best Doc [daved] [ In reply to ]
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and it won an Oscar... impressive

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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For a million reasons, yes, a great movie !

BUT l still want to know how exactly they opened the polycarbonate ratchet lid bottles. That's gotta be another movie right there ...

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Watching this tonight.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... Oscar Winner for best Doc [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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ericMPro wrote:
and it won an Oscar... impressive

And even better was Jimmy Kimmel's follow up, "this shows that Putin didn't rig the Oscars..."
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
MadTownTRI wrote:
And it’s not like he was untrained before hand... that jump is insane. And light dude too, like 130lbs iirc from The Forward.


There's no way he had the results he had before doping on 250W threshold. I believe he was likely doping before doing the documentary, explaining why he didn't get massively better in the actual race.


At 250 watts a 130 lb. (59kg) person puts out 4.24 w/kg. That isn't Tour winning, but he gets a much better draft than most people (being small) and some crafty wheel sucking can certainly help save energy for the climbs. Now if his FTP is closer to only 260 or 270 he starts to look pretty competitive amongst non-doped amateurs.

I consulted a continental pro with similar number to this. He couldn't survive a cross-wind to save his life. Typically he was cleaved off the group prior to the very specific situation in which his strengths could play out. Didn't work out well career-wise.

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [xtrpickels] [ In reply to ]
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xtrpickels wrote:
I consulted a continental pro with similar number to this. He couldn't survive a cross-wind to save his life. Typically he was cleaved off the group prior to the very specific situation in which his strengths could play out. Didn't work out well career-wise.

Similar numbers to what - 130 pounds with FTP of 250w or 350w? I agree 250w isn't going to get you anywhere, but 350 at that weight should, no?

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [Parkland] [ In reply to ]
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I was somewhat ambivalent about allowing OAR to compete but after recently watching the doc I'm with you.
And the doctor, Grigory, is a very likeable guy, despite what he did.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [PrinceMax] [ In reply to ]
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The wife watched it last night, I had seen it. She was only confused when they swapped from the "amateur racer trying doping" thing to the Olympic scandal thing.

I know Haute Route is an intense event, but I didn't think it was the "pinnacle of amateur racing". Until you're a professional paid athlete, USAC and UCI have bike races that have stages. I guess those don't necessarily pick every big "Col" they can. But that was probably a bit of back patting to get Haute Route to allow use of their event name and footage in a documentary about doping. Especially his comment about "they don't test here".
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... Oscar Winner for best Doc [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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So great.

the follow up with lance is a good listen too and he (fogel) did another podcast w someone else too I think.

Great that it won.
daved
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [daved] [ In reply to ]
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The IOC Putin relationship is insane. Encapsulates how humans can be so greedy/power hungry at all cost including taking human life.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
For a million reasons, yes, a great movie !

BUT l still want to know how exactly they opened the polycarbonate ratchet lid bottles. That's gotta be another movie right there ...

They must have had some sort of tool that could slide in, some design that is flexible and then becomes rigid to disengage the ratchet. Or maybe it puts some feromagnetic material and then magnets can apply the force.

They did show how the tampered bodies had small scratches in them and that was evidence of the tampering. So that gives some clues, but I can see why they don't advertise the method yet.
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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, I think that you're right, but it appeared that the bottles were polycarbonate which is a very rigid plastic, so getting 360 deg. of engaged poly carbonate ratchets to expand and release must have been quite a trick.

But those Soviets are some solid tricksters ... one only needs to see the recent news from the UK to confirm that !

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Re: IcaRus movie on netflix... crazy [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Totally forgot to check the Oscar status. Glad to hear that it won. I turned it on just to pass the time on a Saturday afternoon, but before it was over I was enthralled and doing all kinds of google searches.
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