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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I'm an older millennial. I think we were born right on the cusp of a generational shift in parenting. See, we didn't grow up with the internet, and cell phones only became somewhat common towards the end of highschool. My friends and I played outside, didn't have helicopter parents, and were eager to grow up (most of us got jobs young, driver's license was seen as freedom, not a burdon). Everyone was excited to come when they turned 18. We were in a rush to grow up.

My cousin who is 7 years younger is completely different. Him and his friends seem to want to delay adulthood as long as possible. Most dragged their feet on learning how to drive ("why, when you can just get rides from people?"), Getting jobs ("why spend all that time making minimum wages when I can be having fun?") and generally skirting adult responsibility of any kind. Almost none of them vote or have even a passing knowledge of politics beyond what they read on BuzzFeed.

It's really bizarre. It's like at some point being independent and self sufficient became "uncool". Or not lit, or woke, or whatever the hell kids say now.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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BCtriguy1 wrote:
I'm an older millennial. I think we were born right on the cusp of a generational shift in parenting. See, we didn't grow up with the internet, and cell phones only became somewhat common towards the end of highschool. My friends and I played outside, didn't have helicopter parents, and were eager to grow up (most of us got jobs young, driver's license was seen as freedom, not a burdon). Everyone was excited to come when they turned 18. We were in a rush to grow up.

My cousin who is 7 years younger is completely different. Him and his friends seem to want to delay adulthood as long as possible. Most dragged their feet on learning how to drive ("why, when you can just get rides from people?"), Getting jobs ("why spend all that time making minimum wages when I can be having fun?") and generally skirting adult responsibility of any kind. Almost none of them vote or have even a passing knowledge of politics beyond what they read on BuzzFeed.

It's really bizarre. It's like at some point being independent and self sufficient became "uncool". Or not lit, or woke, or whatever the hell kids say now.

Wokeness, bro. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [Sshoreli] [ In reply to ]
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Sshoreli wrote:
What kills me is a lot of ski mountains (at least here on the East coast) are now offering something, not necessarily named, but akin to a "millennial" season pass. This is a heavily, heavily discounted pass for those 18 - 29. Okay back in the day they had discounted college season passes for up to like 21, but now up to 29?!?!?! Then for 30+ they have "Adult" passes. WTF, how is a 29 y/o not an adult.
Meanwhile I, of the I guess "wealthy" Gen Z, would have to basically pay adult (or near adult, at the very least way more then the millennial pass) prices for season passes for my 9 and 11 year old. GTFOH.

I really doubt the ski areas are doing this based on perceived maturity. I am pretty sure they are seeing a huge drop off in skier days among different demographics and trying to keep people from dropping out of the sport who the demographics say are.

If you want to really be mad about something unfair- kids get free passes when parents buy a pass at many Colorado mountains - and we actually have good skiing not ice skating down a mountain. My 8yo skis about 30 days a season free with my $400 season pass.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
I don't get the whole deal of not getting a driver's license right away, not wanting to move out, letting mommy handle your finances, not even thinking of getting a job in college, etc.

I left home 3 days after I graduated high school, never moved back, worked all through college, got married young, ... It never occurred to me to ever do anything else. I figured that was what you were supposed to do.

Not sure how or when the desire to be independent went away.


I know to someone like Mr. Koala Bear (who made a very thoughtful post in this thread) we sound like a bunch of old "get off my lawn, you kids!" guys, but maybe it's time to start realigning what we as a society give in the way of adult benefits to millennials and the follow-on cohort, Gen Zers?

Maybe raise the voting age back to 21 or even 22? Raise the retirement age for Social Security (though I don't believe those under 35 will see the same program as it currently exists) to 70 or even 72, perhaps? Same for drinking age (back to 21 or 22, given adolescence is now age 24). After all, you can't have it both ways; demanding to be treated as an adult -- after you've supposedly put away your childish things -- and yet be considered an adolescent in almost all respects, including retaining those "childish things."

Allowing such a dichotomy to exist seems to me, at least, not good for society and the way it must necessarily operate in order to ensure the greatest good goes to the greatest number of people.

Sure, kids are physiologically maturing at a younger age, but their social and psychological maturation seems to be regressing. As a group, I mean, because there are certainly individuals who are in no way children -- either in thought or deed -- once they hit 18.

Oh, I've never done that. That's just crazy talk. I still play like a kid, I just never really liked other people in my business.

I have a couple nieces and nephews that have their parents balancing their checkbooks and asking mom and dad if it is ok for them to change jobs, etc. Not just asking advice, but permission. That part is just alien to me.

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [j p o] [ In reply to ]
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j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
I don't get the whole deal of not getting a driver's license right away, not wanting to move out, letting mommy handle your finances, not even thinking of getting a job in college, etc.

I left home 3 days after I graduated high school, never moved back, worked all through college, got married young, ... It never occurred to me to ever do anything else. I figured that was what you were supposed to do.

Not sure how or when the desire to be independent went away.


I know to someone like Mr. Koala Bear (who made a very thoughtful post in this thread) we sound like a bunch of old "get off my lawn, you kids!" guys, but maybe it's time to start realigning what we as a society give in the way of adult benefits to millennials and the follow-on cohort, Gen Zers?

Maybe raise the voting age back to 21 or even 22? Raise the retirement age for Social Security (though I don't believe those under 35 will see the same program as it currently exists) to 70 or even 72, perhaps? Same for drinking age (back to 21 or 22, given adolescence is now age 24). After all, you can't have it both ways; demanding to be treated as an adult -- after you've supposedly put away your childish things -- and yet be considered an adolescent in almost all respects, including retaining those "childish things."

Allowing such a dichotomy to exist seems to me, at least, not good for society and the way it must necessarily operate in order to ensure the greatest good goes to the greatest number of people.

Sure, kids are physiologically maturing at a younger age, but their social and psychological maturation seems to be regressing. As a group, I mean, because there are certainly individuals who are in no way children -- either in thought or deed -- once they hit 18.


Oh, I've never done that. That's just crazy talk. I still play like a kid, I just never really liked other people in my business.

I have a couple nieces and nephews that have their parents balancing their checkbooks and asking mom and dad if it is ok for them to change jobs, etc. Not just asking advice, but permission. That part is just alien to me.

Then at the other end of the spectrum...

At a youth hockey game this weekend my daughter was standing outside the locker room when a ~13 year old boy comes out pitching a fit because the coach told him he wasn't playing that game. So he stamps off and retrieves his parents and brings both mom and dad over. Coach comes out and explains to the parents the kid isn't playing because of how disrespectful he is, including saying to the coach "fuck you" when he told him he wasn't playing. Coach says if his behavior continues he's off the team (which in my book, he would already be off). Parents kind of take the coach's side, telling the kid he needs to apologize, etc. leading to the kid eventually saying "fuck you" to both mom and dad. And they did nothing! Kid stormed off. Mom spent several minutes basically apologizing, minimizing what the kid had done, including the line "he has feelings too".

Thankfully, my daughter was appalled that any body would act like that.

I would say those two have abjectly failed as parents.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
j p o wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
I don't get the whole deal of not getting a driver's license right away, not wanting to move out, letting mommy handle your finances, not even thinking of getting a job in college, etc.

I left home 3 days after I graduated high school, never moved back, worked all through college, got married young, ... It never occurred to me to ever do anything else. I figured that was what you were supposed to do.

Not sure how or when the desire to be independent went away.


I know to someone like Mr. Koala Bear (who made a very thoughtful post in this thread) we sound like a bunch of old "get off my lawn, you kids!" guys, but maybe it's time to start realigning what we as a society give in the way of adult benefits to millennials and the follow-on cohort, Gen Zers?

Maybe raise the voting age back to 21 or even 22? Raise the retirement age for Social Security (though I don't believe those under 35 will see the same program as it currently exists) to 70 or even 72, perhaps? Same for drinking age (back to 21 or 22, given adolescence is now age 24). After all, you can't have it both ways; demanding to be treated as an adult -- after you've supposedly put away your childish things -- and yet be considered an adolescent in almost all respects, including retaining those "childish things."

Allowing such a dichotomy to exist seems to me, at least, not good for society and the way it must necessarily operate in order to ensure the greatest good goes to the greatest number of people.

Sure, kids are physiologically maturing at a younger age, but their social and psychological maturation seems to be regressing. As a group, I mean, because there are certainly individuals who are in no way children -- either in thought or deed -- once they hit 18.


Oh, I've never done that. That's just crazy talk. I still play like a kid, I just never really liked other people in my business.

I have a couple nieces and nephews that have their parents balancing their checkbooks and asking mom and dad if it is ok for them to change jobs, etc. Not just asking advice, but permission. That part is just alien to me.


Then at the other end of the spectrum...

At a youth hockey game this weekend my daughter was standing outside the locker room when a ~13 year old boy comes out pitching a fit because the coach told him he wasn't playing that game. So he stamps off and retrieves his parents and brings both mom and dad over. Coach comes out and explains to the parents the kid isn't playing because of how disrespectful he is, including saying to the coach "fuck you" when he told him he wasn't playing. Coach says if his behavior continues he's off the team (which in my book, he would already be off). Parents kind of take the coach's side, telling the kid he needs to apologize, etc. leading to the kid eventually saying "fuck you" to both mom and dad. And they did nothing! Kid stormed off. Mom spent several minutes basically apologizing, minimizing what the kid had done, including the line "he has feelings too".

Thankfully, my daughter was appalled that any body would act like that.

I would say those two have abjectly failed as parents.

Agree a million percent.

And I'm not saying this is right, but I would have been made, by my father and/or mother, to experience severe levels of pain had I even spoken a cross word at an adult back in the day. And if I'd have told my mom or dad "F*ck you!"? Well, I'm sure my funeral would have been a nice affair, at least. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Aaaaaand... here's your supposed "18 to 24-year-old adult" at this weekend's series of women's marches, which were mostly against that guy in the White House. Why this white woman is exercised against "white feminism" is beyond me, because there's no doubt she probably benefits the most from it. But I suppose she's "woke," or something. ;-)

Or is that a trans-feminist white guy who says he's a woman? Y'all tell me. ;-)



"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I enlisted in the Navy when I was 17, rented my first apartment at 22, married at 24, bought my first house at 29 (California, it would have been easier in a lower cost area).

Both of my kids were out of the house before they were 20, living in other states either going to college or working. Both ended up in the military, both heading into officer programs after starting off as enlisted sailors.

Meanwhile our relatives kids left home only when they got married and one has extended childhood to 22 and running with no job, no college and no plans.

It's poor parenting in my opinion. Teach them independence, how to live and they will. Fail to teach those subjects and the kids will behave like sitcom actors.
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
You nailed it. My wife is afraid to let the kids walk two blocks by themselves. I am under the opinion that children are safer today and I think that technology and awareness in our schools has helped lower the scary stats.

I feel like we've swung the pendulum too far towards the "children need to be protected at all costs" end of the spectrum.

I was a teen in the 80s and I rode by bikes *everywhere*. Bmx out and around the neighborhood with friends and at tracks, and a road bike for longer stuff. I don't recall ever owning a helmet. I rode in all kinds of traffic, even across this quite often:



My level of supervision was roughly zero. Oh yeah and no cell phones to call anyone if there was a problem :P

I'm not saying kids need to be completely left to their own devices like I was, but I do think there's a correlation between the amount of freedom they are given and the amount of responsibility they learn to take on.

The only supervision I got when I was a kid and outside -- which was all the time, if I could swing it -- was "Be on the porch when the streetlights come on or it's your @ss." ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
So basically, people are physically maturing at a younger age, but parents suck so bad that their kids remain dependent on them and unable to transition to adulthood until a significantly older age?

Awesome.

Nailed it!!!

Helicopter parenting has taken its toll.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
Heh my best friend lived way out in the woods on many acres of property. His dad didn't want to bother trying to find us out there when it was time to come in. So he had an actual air raid siren attached to the side of the house. Best dinner bell ever.

Hahahahahaha! That's awesome! :-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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They're our best and brightest? Dude, we're in big trouble. ;-)

University Student Hospitalized After Eating A Tide Pod.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Post deleted by spudone [ In reply to ]
Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
They're our best and brightest? Dude, we're in big trouble. ;-)

University Student Hospitalized After Eating A Tide Pod.

Was probably trying to wash the taste of Keystone out of his mouth ;)

Hey, I used to like that beer. I think it had a white plastic liner in the can or something, to preserve freshness. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
spudone wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
They're our best and brightest? Dude, we're in big trouble. ;-)

University Student Hospitalized After Eating A Tide Pod.

Was probably trying to wash the taste of Keystone out of his mouth ;)


Hey, I used to like that beer. I think it had a white plastic liner in the can or something, to preserve freshness. ;-)

I think the cans were lined with lead? Cant recall for certain as I put down far too many Keystones (Ice specifically) in my reckless youth.

Tide Pod Challenge is new to me..I can't recall anything as stupid as this being something to try in my day. I do recall drying out a banana peel with a friend as the rumor was it would get you high when smoked..but then again a banana peel won't take out a grease stain so I'm not going to be too hard on myself.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [Skipjack] [ In reply to ]
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Skipjack wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
spudone wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
They're our best and brightest? Dude, we're in big trouble. ;-)

University Student Hospitalized After Eating A Tide Pod.

Was probably trying to wash the taste of Keystone out of his mouth ;)


Hey, I used to like that beer. I think it had a white plastic liner in the can or something, to preserve freshness. ;-)


I think the cans were lined with lead? Cant recall for certain as I put down far too many Keystones (Ice specifically) in my reckless youth.

Tide Pod Challenge is new to me..I can't recall anything as stupid as this being something to try in my day. I do recall drying out a banana peel with a friend as the rumor was it would get you high when smoked..but then again a banana peel won't take out a grease stain so I'm not going to be too hard on myself.

They were lined with something, that's what I remember about them.

And the dried banana peel? I'd heard of that in the 1970s for sure. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
momentum can take a lot of the arm work out of it.

Wasn't that in the infamous "The Anarchists Cookbook"?
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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spudone wrote:
Heh my best friend lived way out in the woods on many acres of property. His dad didn't want to bother trying to find us out there when it was time to come in. So he had an actual air raid siren attached to the side of the house. Best dinner bell ever.

When we'd go out camping w/ my cousins, my Uncle had this huge plastic megaphone/trumpet/Viking horn-looking thing that would put out a giant ringing bellow to summon us all from the far reaches of the campground/woods/beach ~ much like the conch horn Ron Burgundy used to assemble the news team in 'Anchorman' (*cue flock of birds flushing skyward in the distance...*)
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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sounds about right given the way my 21 year old sibling acts

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
j p o wrote:
I don't get the whole deal of not getting a driver's license right away, not wanting to move out, letting mommy handle your finances, not even thinking of getting a job in college, etc.

I left home 3 days after I graduated high school, never moved back, worked all through college, got married young, ... It never occurred to me to ever do anything else. I figured that was what you were supposed to do.

Not sure how or when the desire to be independent went away.


Maybe raise the voting age back to 21 or even 22? Raise the retirement age for Social Security (though I don't believe those under 35 will see the same program as it currently exists) to 70 or even 72, perhaps? Same for drinking age (back to 21 or 22, given adolescence is now age 24). After all, you can't have it both ways; demanding to be treated as an adult -- after you've supposedly put away your childish things -- and yet be considered an adolescent in almost all respects, including retaining those "childish things."

I generally stay off these threads, as I find myself and my kids are not like all these "parents/kids" others talk about. But I will tell you my first 2 kids got their licenses at 16 my third has other issues and is working on it. But neither of my older kids drink (oldest turns 21 this year, and doesn't really care) (no its not cause they don't tell me, Its mostly cause they have seen to many get in trouble by drinking so just don't even want to start) Voting, they vote with much pushing from me, but if you raised the voting age they wouldn't care. That being said, both are in college, with post college plans already framed up.

big kahuna wrote:
Allowing such a dichotomy to exist seems to me, at least, not good for society and the way it must necessarily operate in order to ensure the greatest good goes to the greatest number of people.

Sure, kids are physiologically maturing at a younger age, but their social and psychological maturation seems to be regressing. As a group, I mean, because there are certainly individuals who are in no way children -- either in thought or deed -- once they hit 18.

Oh and you already don't get full soc. sec. till 70 or 72.

But I would vote for raising Voting age to 21, Military Draft 21, Alcohol and Marijuana to 25.

But I don't think any of that will happen.

Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.
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Re: Scientists: Adolescence Now Runs from 10 Years to 24 Years [BCtriguy1] [ In reply to ]
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I was born in '62 and grew up mostly in little OR/WA logging towns. Us kids weren't home much, we were usually playing in the woods, yards, orchards, whatever. We had lots of autonomy so learned the basic life lessons of responsibility, tenacity, self-reliance, etc. It was a total blast.

My father moved away from me because of a job promotion as soon as I graduated from HS. I was 17. It took a while, but I put myself thru college with some help from the Marines. None of it was any big deal. I just had to buckle down and put some effort into it all to succeed.

Fast forward to now and we have 3 young teenage boys. The first problem is that Mom tends to shield them from adversity, and shield them from any consequences of being irresponsible. She will happily do everything for them because she loves them, not being too wrapped up in the idea of "consequences is how they learn". Like....you can't bother yourself to make lunch in the morning, you're going to be hungry today at school.

The second problem is that all the other parents seem to be on mom's page not mine. So there's zero kids roaming the streets going to their buddy's house or linking up in nearby parks to do stuff. The whole culture of kid's working out their own fun, informally, is gone. Everything is set up by parents. 13yr olds want a sleep over? Moms coordinate it. 13yr olds need to get somewhere on some day, they don't have to bother themselves to keep track of where they need to be when, nor how they're getting there, because moms do all that for them.

By shielding the kids from being responsible for their little kid "life", we're denying them the practice they need to learn these adult skills.

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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