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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [Harbinger] [ In reply to ]
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Harbinger wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Emzee wrote:
slowguy wrote:
Harbinger wrote:
Bretom wrote:
I get it, and I don't want my one post on this to imply that I think the most important issue raised by this case is anything other that the crime and its impact. I'm just pointing out that a judge should be able to confront heinous crimes (and there are many that have a less widespread but even more devastating impact than this) and pathetic criminals (granted, Nassar may be top of the class in this category), without betraying emotion and/or copping to the camera.


And I think her words will echo in the minds of the victims, and give them comfort.


That's nice, but not really a judge's job. And if it potentially subverts the appearance of impartial justice, that's not a good trade-off.


He plead guilty. It was a sentencing. She doesn't need to be impartial. Different story in a trial, but it wasn't a trial.


Last I checked, sentencing was still part of the criminal justice system, and the judge is still required to hand down relatively impartial sentencing. The need for impartial justice doesn't end when the guilt/not guilty verdict is entered.


None of that even registers on my 'Give a Shit Meter'. Just doesn't. I think our criminal justice system is better served by her comments.

Yeah, I get that your "give a shit" meter is pretty loosely calibrated. Regardless of what you give a shit about, our Justice system is entirely based on the concept that every citizen gets a fair and impartial treatment as they move through the process. We fail in that ideal an awful lot. We probably don't need judges contributing to those failures.

Victims of crimes are better served by having judges and court officers ensure a fair trial that results in an honest verdict, than they are by trite statements from judges who are either looking to comfort or looking to grandstand.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
Looks like Lou Anna Simon's going to do just fine in this (forced) retirement gig she's entered:

"Michigan State University President Lou Anna Simon, who submitted a resignation letter late Wednesday amid fallout over the Larry Nassar sexual assault scandal, could continue earning most of her salary if she returns to the faculty and will have access to free football game and other event tickets for life.

An employment agreement Simon signed in late 2012 guarantees a host of post-presidency benefits that kicked in with her resignation. The university on Thursday provided the agreement to The Detroit News.

Simon was earning a $750,000 base salary and a $100,000 annual retention bonus under a 2014 amendment approved by the Board of Trustees. According to the agreement, her resignation is not official for at least 60 days, a period during which she must continue to fulfill her duties and cooperate in the transition to a new president.

If she chooses to return to the faculty after her presidency, Simon could again earn her full $750,000 salary during a one-year research leave. She could earn the full salary for another year as a faculty member, and then 75 percent of that in subsequent years, or $562,500 annually."

That is crazy money for a faculty member.
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
Harbinger wrote:

None of that even registers on my 'Give a Shit Meter'. Just doesn't. I think our criminal justice system is better served by her comments.


Yeah, I get that your "give a shit" meter is pretty loosely calibrated. Regardless of what you give a shit about, our Justice system is entirely based on the concept that every citizen gets a fair and impartial treatment as they move through the process. We fail in that ideal an awful lot. We probably don't need judges contributing to those failures.

Victims of crimes are better served by having judges and court officers ensure a fair trial that results in an honest verdict, than they are by trite statements from judges who are either looking to comfort or looking to grandstand.

So you wouldn't be in favour of having Vince McMahon and Jesse "The Body" Ventura read out the verdicts/sentencing?

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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At sentencing, I think the judge isn't totally out of place in expressing their feelings on the case as to why they are handing down a particular sentence. You can be fairly and impartially outraged at the crimes the guilty party has been convicted of.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
Looks like Lou Anna Simon's going to do just fine in this (forced) retirement gig she's entered:

"Michigan State University President Lou Anna Simon, who submitted a resignation letter late Wednesday amid fallout over the Larry Nassar sexual assault scandal, could continue earning most of her salary if she returns to the faculty and will have access to free football game and other event tickets for life.

An employment agreement Simon signed in late 2012 guarantees a host of post-presidency benefits that kicked in with her resignation. The university on Thursday provided the agreement to The Detroit News.

Simon was earning a $750,000 base salary and a $100,000 annual retention bonus under a 2014 amendment approved by the Board of Trustees. According to the agreement, her resignation is not official for at least 60 days, a period during which she must continue to fulfill her duties and cooperate in the transition to a new president.

If she chooses to return to the faculty after her presidency, Simon could again earn her full $750,000 salary during a one-year research leave. She could earn the full salary for another year as a faculty member, and then 75 percent of that in subsequent years, or $562,500 annually."

That is crazy money for a faculty member.

She’s the President of the university. I’m not really going to be outraged on that one. It’s like upper level corporate positions, there are only so many people who have the qualifications for them and because of that you have to pay them accordingly or they’ll work somewhere else.
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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JasoninHalifax wrote:
At sentencing, I think the judge isn't totally out of place in expressing their feelings on the case as to why they are handing down a particular sentence. You can be fairly and impartially outraged at the crimes the guilty party has been convicted of.

I think it's appropriate for the judge to comment on the heinous nature of the crime, of course. They should justify why they hand down a more or less severe sentence.

The judge shouldn't, in my opinion, be claiming that it's her "privilege" to lay down the sentence, or that she's singing the convicted person's "death sentence." She shouldn't be grandstanding, like this judge was, with things like spelling out how many individual months her sentence amounts to. The judge sure as shit shouldn't be telling the convicted person that she wishes she could allow a person or many people to do to the criminal what he did to others.

The sentence for a crime is supposed to be based on the law and the severity of the crime committed, not the emotional response of a judge.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [slowguy] [ In reply to ]
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slowguy wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
At sentencing, I think the judge isn't totally out of place in expressing their feelings on the case as to why they are handing down a particular sentence. You can be fairly and impartially outraged at the crimes the guilty party has been convicted of.

I think it's appropriate for the judge to comment on the heinous nature of the crime, of course. They should justify why they hand down a more or less severe sentence.

The judge shouldn't, in my opinion, be claiming that it's her "privilege" to lay down the sentence, or that she's singing the convicted person's "death sentence." She shouldn't be grandstanding, like this judge was, with things like spelling out how many individual months her sentence amounts to. The judge sure as shit shouldn't be telling the convicted person that she wishes she could allow a person or many people to do to the criminal what he did to others.

The sentence for a crime is supposed to be based on the law and the severity of the crime committed, not the emotional response of a judge.

Yeah, I agree with this. I felt that the judge in this case went way overboard with her comments, and called into question her impartiality.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [spot] [ In reply to ]
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spot wrote:
slowguy wrote:
JasoninHalifax wrote:
At sentencing, I think the judge isn't totally out of place in expressing their feelings on the case as to why they are handing down a particular sentence. You can be fairly and impartially outraged at the crimes the guilty party has been convicted of.


I think it's appropriate for the judge to comment on the heinous nature of the crime, of course. They should justify why they hand down a more or less severe sentence.

The judge shouldn't, in my opinion, be claiming that it's her "privilege" to lay down the sentence, or that she's singing the convicted person's "death sentence." She shouldn't be grandstanding, like this judge was, with things like spelling out how many individual months her sentence amounts to. The judge sure as shit shouldn't be telling the convicted person that she wishes she could allow a person or many people to do to the criminal what he did to others.

The sentence for a crime is supposed to be based on the law and the severity of the crime committed, not the emotional response of a judge.


Yeah, I agree with this. I felt that the judge in this case went way overboard with her comments, and called into question her impartiality.

You know I thought this as well. Especially when I read her 'money' quote in that online article. But then I listened to her entire statement, and when taken in context of everything she said, I found that it wasn't as full of showboating and emotion as I previously thought.

To wit: the privilege statement was mostly keeping with the parallel structure of her statement as she first claimed she had the privilege of listening to the victims testify as to their suffering. And now she had the privilege of handing out his sentence.
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [ In reply to ]
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Him being a victim is now technically true.

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Last edited by: The GMAN: Jul 10, 23 8:22
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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eesh. two things can exist at once here i think:

Nassar is human slime

prison justice is barbaric
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [kiki] [ In reply to ]
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The number of people losing sleep about this however is probably zero.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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i'd like to think all the enablers will take a moment to consider their role in this fresh chapter

but yeah, they likely won't
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [kiki] [ In reply to ]
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kiki wrote:
eesh. two things can exist at once here i think:

Nassar is human slime

I disagree. Nassar is just one sad, pathetic, and profoundly mentally ill individual.

But the people who looked the other way and protected Nassar for decades, THOSE are the real human slime. They are the ones that are truly to blame for all of Nassar's crimes.

And the boys scouts of america and the catholic church are both filled with such evil scumbag enablers. THEY are each a thousand times worse than Nassar.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not any kind of knife fighting expert but give me 10 opportunities at you and I'm pretty sure you're dead before the guards get to you or very shortly thereafter.

Perhaps following his convalescence, the bureau of prisons can room him up with the guy that crushed Dahmer's head with the dumbell.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
profoundly mentally ill individual.

I think you're over-stating that. Nassar was not diagnosed with any mental illness, and it's very clear that he knew that what he was doing was very, very wrong. I'm fine going after the collaborators as equals-or-worse. But let's not gloss over Nassar.
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
profoundly mentally ill individual.

I think you're over-stating that. Nassar was not diagnosed with any mental illness, and it's very clear that he knew that what he was doing was very, very wrong. I'm fine going after the collaborators as equals-or-worse. But let's not gloss over Nassar.

At some point, cruelty and inhumanity looks like a significant defect— to call it an illness doesn’t gloss over it. We know what he did was gross. Nasser enjoyed something as a result of his gross mistreatment of vulnerable people. He did what he did for a clearly fucked up reason.

What did the collaborators and enablers enjoy? Why did they do what they did? That’s a harder question— it makes me think of the unethical psychology experiments where grossly unkind behavior is normalized and people do what they normally wouldn’t do.

Separate issue: I love when criminals in prison appear to have better defined ethics than people on the outside.
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
profoundly mentally ill individual.

I think you're over-stating that. Nassar was not diagnosed with any mental illness, and it's very clear that he knew that what he was doing was very, very wrong. I'm fine going after the collaborators as equals-or-worse. But let's not gloss over Nassar.

I think that, by definition (by what he did), he is mentally ill. An "official" diagnosis does not really matter.

But, in my opinion, the people that cover for and protect predators (see BSA, catholic church et al.), these are the people that are truly evil.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [Barks&Purrs] [ In reply to ]
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Barks&Purrs wrote:
trail wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
profoundly mentally ill individual.
I think you're over-stating that. Nassar was not diagnosed with any mental illness, and it's very clear that he knew that what he was doing was very, very wrong. I'm fine going after the collaborators as equals-or-worse. But let's not gloss over Nassar.
At some point, cruelty and inhumanity looks like a significant defect— to call it an illness doesn’t gloss over it. We know what he did was gross. Nasser enjoyed something as a result of his gross mistreatment of vulnerable people. He did what he did for a clearly fucked up reason.

What did the collaborators and enablers enjoy? Why did they do what they did? That’s a harder question— it makes me think of the unethical psychology experiments where grossly unkind behavior is normalized and people do what they normally wouldn’t do.


That, ma'am, is the million dollar question.

Kind of like why regular germans turned the other way when they knew their countrymen and women and govt were exterminating innocent people by the millions. But the germans had a good reason to turn away: if they made a fuss, they would have been executed. As many germans were.

But enablers at Michigan State, USA Gymnastics, the Boy Scouts of America, the Catholic Church, et al., none of those enablers would have been executed if they spoke up. But they still chose the path of clear evil.
“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men/women to do nothing”

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Jul 11, 23 11:29
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Barks&Purrs wrote:
trail wrote:
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
profoundly mentally ill individual.
I think you're over-stating that. Nassar was not diagnosed with any mental illness, and it's very clear that he knew that what he was doing was very, very wrong. I'm fine going after the collaborators as equals-or-worse. But let's not gloss over Nassar.
At some point, cruelty and inhumanity looks like a significant defect— to call it an illness doesn’t gloss over it. We know what he did was gross. Nasser enjoyed something as a result of his gross mistreatment of vulnerable people. He did what he did for a clearly fucked up reason.

What did the collaborators and enablers enjoy? Why did they do what they did? That’s a harder question— it makes me think of the unethical psychology experiments where grossly unkind behavior is normalized and people do what they normally wouldn’t do.


That, ma'am, is the million dollar question.

Kind of like why regular germans turned the other way when they knew their countrymen and women and govt were exterminating innocent people by the millions. But the germans had a good reason to turn away: if they made a fuss, they would have been executed. As many germans were.

But enablers in the University of Michigan, USA Gymnastics, the Boy Scouts of America, the Catholic Church, et al., none of those enablers would have been executed if they spoke up. But they still chose the path of clear evil.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men/women to do nothing”

As much as it pains me to correct you, it was Michigan State University. Given that, UM has an equally disturbing sexual abuse scandal that hasn't gotten nearly the publicity. Better PR people I guess.
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [Thom] [ In reply to ]
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Thom wrote:
As much as it pains me to correct you, it was Michigan State University. Given that, UM has an equally disturbing sexual abuse scandal that hasn't gotten nearly the publicity. Better PR people I guess.
Thanks for the correction. Now fixed.

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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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mck414 wrote:
I'm not any kind of knife fighting expert but give me 10 opportunities at you and I'm pretty sure you're dead before the guards get to you or very shortly thereafter.

Perhaps following his convalescence, the bureau of prisons can room him up with the guy that crushed Dahmer's head with the dumbell.

With any kind of legitimate knife, probably.

But with a prison shiv that might not be much more than one prong on the end of a fork, maybe not.

Do we know what he was stabbed with?
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Re: Larry Nassar: I am a victim too, you know [DieselPete] [ In reply to ]
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Reportedly he was stabbed for saying he wanted to watch girls play tennis while Wimbledon was on.

The stabber doesn't like pedophiles too much.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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