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Re: Trump FISA tweets [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
Now he's ranting about immigrants from 'sh*thole' countries, his words not mine. I think it's pretty hard to empathize with people from less fortunate situations when you've never gone hungry in your life and you've never gone out of your way to witness those conditions other than to evict them from your properties.

Although there are plenty of wealthy people that go out of their way to experience poverty. But Trump probably isn't one of them. His bone spurs probably prevented it.

Don's right in as much as some of these people do come from shit hole countries. But what's lost to him is that's why they wish to leave to pursue a better life elsewhere. They're not shit hole people just because of where they were born.


But that is Trump’s point. People from those countries (coincidentally I am sure, mostly brown) aren’t welcome.

But whites are
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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I read way too many comments on Fox News news stories, it's not healthy.

Here is what they would say about the first hand Dick Durbin account; "He's a democrat and he's lying" If he was a republican it would be "He's a neverTrump, drain the swamp, deep state". The level of crazy out there is scary.
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [cerveloguy] [ In reply to ]
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cerveloguy wrote:
Although there are plenty of wealthy people that go out of their way to experience poverty. But Trump probably isn't one of them. His bone spurs probably prevented it.


Don's right in as much as some of these people do come from shit hole countries. But what's lost to him is that's why they wish to leave to pursue a better life elsewhere. They're not shit hole people just because of where they were born.[/quote]
If they were not coming from shit hole countries why would they want to leave and come to the US? I agree that where you're born doesn't make you a shit hole.
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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Perseus wrote:
cerveloguy wrote:
Although there are plenty of wealthy people that go out of their way to experience poverty. But Trump probably isn't one of them. His bone spurs probably prevented it.


Don's right in as much as some of these people do come from shit hole countries. But what's lost to him is that's why they wish to leave to pursue a better life elsewhere. They're not shit hole people just because of where they were born.

If they were not coming from shit hole countries why would they want to leave and come to the US? I agree that where you're born doesn't make you a shit hole.[/quote]
If America is the greatest place on Earth why do American companies continue to take money and jobs overseas? Little bit of grey area there, wouldn't you say?
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [Perseus] [ In reply to ]
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If they were not coming from shit hole countries why would they want to leave and come to the US?

It may surprise you to know but almost every person on earth, given the choice, would like to stay in their country of birth. It is where they grew up, have their friends and their families. I've met people and visited countries around the world and with very few exceptions, people would prefer to be in their country of birth.

The only reason people leave, other than to be with family members, is for economic reasons (ie. jobs, future prospects for their children). If the U.S offers those, people will come. If countries in Western Europe offer it, they will go there.

That is why they leave shithole countries and if the economics improved in their countries, they would go back in a heartbeat even if Trump doesn't understand that.

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Re: Trump FISA tweets [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]
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ThisIsIt wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
The WH may think their base will be ok with this, but I think as a country we're better than that and I hope his base, and some of the ball washers here have the moral fortitude to call him out.

Do you know any people that form his base? The ones I know love it when he says this kind of stuff because it's what they think.

Exactly. I live in middle of them. They eat this stuff up "Merica"
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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Sanuk wrote:
If they were not coming from shit hole countries why would they want to leave and come to the US?

It may surprise you to know but almost every person on earth, given the choice, would like to stay in their country of birth. It is where they grew up, have their friends and their families. I've met people and visited countries around the world and with very few exceptions, people would prefer to be in their country of birth.

The only reason people leave, other than to be with family members, is for economic reasons (ie. jobs, future prospects for their children). If the U.S offers those, people will come. If countries in Western Europe offer it, they will go there.

That is why they leave shithole countries and if the economics improved in their countries, they would go back in a heartbeat even if Trump doesn't understand that.

1) those aren't "the only reasons". Fleeing religious persecution is another reason. Fleeing criminal prosecution is another reason. Spreading terrorism or a particular religion is another reason. Falling within your category of "economic reasoning" though not as benign as the examples you give are, to pursue illegal activity for gain (because it is more profitable or the consequences are more lenient than where they are coming from), receiving free and better health care, and receiving govt benefit and assistance (all fall under your category). I get that I am not describing all or even the vast majority of those that come to the US. But to make it sound like those are the only two reasons (and they are all your poor and huddled masses striving ) is disingenuous.

2) The US does offer these things and people come. If Canada offered these things would people come? If they did would they be allowed in as easily as they are in the US? Western Europe has offered it and they have come. And many in Western Europe are reviewing their consequences and policies as we are.


3) No where in Trump's asinine statement(s) do I see where he doesn't understand that if one's shithole country became less of a shithole that the person wouldn't desire to return. Nor do I see where we or he control the factors that would influence the shithole to clean up its act. So instead we have to look at how we are going to deal with all the people who understandably want to leave their shithole despite the fact that it is their home (and understandably would choose the US as the alternative).

No all this doesn't make me a Trump supporter and yes I still think Trump is an idiot. That shouldn't mean you get to throw out blanket statements that go unchallenged.
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [ironmayb] [ In reply to ]
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No all this doesn't make me a Trump supporter and yes I still think Trump is an idiot. That shouldn't mean you get to throw out blanket statements that go unchallenged.

It's not really a blanket statement. Every single immigrant, or person I met who wanted to immigrate was for economic reasons. If any country on earth offered easy immigration, high paying jobs and a future job for their children, people would go.

There may be a few who immigrate for religious persecution but it is rare. I've been in a lot of "shit hole" countries but people are loyal to their place of birth. Every single immigrant I have ever met, would return to their country of birth if the economic conditions there were the same as in the U.S. or any of their adopted countries. I know people from the very poor areas of the Philippines, the remote villages of Laos and Indonesia, refugees from Syria, Pakistan and Afghanistan and without exception, they would return to their countries if the opportunities were the same as they are in Canada.

A few of them left as refugees so due to war but their main motivation to come to Canada was still for economic security for their kids.

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Re: Trump FISA tweets [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
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I believe the people in your experience represent the vast vast majority of anyone who would leave their home (shit hole or not) for another country

As a parent I respect their willingness to do so

As a US citizen I hope we can continue to discuss this issue and come to a conclusion that allows us to accept the vast vast majority of the people like you have encountered

I am sorry we have a president who appears to be unable to communicate in such a way that he can’t separate the conditions of a country from the individuals who make up for that country. That is not helping the process above
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Re: Trump FISA tweets [TimeIsUp] [ In reply to ]
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TimeIsUp wrote:
If America is the greatest place on Earth why do American companies continue to take money and jobs overseas? Little bit of grey area there, wouldn't you say?

$
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