I think that gap between potential and achieved performance is the key (and what Dan is talking about).

Yes, the top 10 guys at Kona all work hard and have 'great genes', but is their finishing positions determined more by genes or work ethic?

Did they all perform at 100% of their potential and it was only the difference in genes that determined finishing order?

Or, did some of them work harder and get closer to their potential, and therefore finish better then others who aren't as close to their potential.

In what world are you too short for basketball?

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College or pro. At center i needed to be 7 feet tall and like 250 lbs. High school was fine

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

While reading Jordano's post I was thinking how important "positive feedback" can be. Improvement surely helps, as well as racing success. Particularly winning.

But I always just liked pushing myself to see what I could do. Fantasies of ever going Pro died pretty quickly, but any little improvement was enough incentive for me. Even if your W/kg is stuck, there is always something you can improve. TTs are good for that because there is a big science/aero aspect that can be endlessly refined.

Besides that you really need to *enjoy* what you are doing. It's like people who take up running or cycling to lose weight, but are focused on how much they hate it and how much they are suffering. That never lasts long. On some level it needs to be "fun", however you define that.

The last few years I seem to have entered the downward slope due to aging, and watching my fitness decline is somewhat depressing. I definitely do not have the incentive like I did, since the best I can do is deteriorate less. No more PRs in my future. Probably. I haven't entirely given up hope though! I'll see what happens this year...

WAVA-graded PRs are still worth chasing! If only to slow the inevitable decline of performance that accelerates with giving-in to age and becoming sedentary. Although I still laugh when the WAVA says my 18:50 5k translates to a 17:30 at age 21; sorry, but that's definitely TOO much of a bonus for me to believe! 18:10-30 is more believable.

Wait...you've pegged yourself as a Center then declared yourself too short for that position?? There are MANY (probably most) pro and college guards who are shorter than you.

I set a pr for my age at ever race.

Last year at 60 was my best ever. I expect thats it but since i do this for overalll health i hope to be walking the run before i am done

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Hell yes, I just need to get my head on that program! Who cares about *last* year...

Sounds like a win-win for both you and those potential training partners.

True but you made my point. I was born with certain skills. No matter hard work i was never going to be a guard or shooter. I elected to do things to my strengths. There is a reason i do not do single sports i suck.

By i have the mental and physical to do multiple races in a short period like my 4 in 9 days for multisport legend at penticton worlds, one of only 19. So few even tried. So what this say about my dna vs all the others?

I just elect to have fun with what i have and that will never be to win. Was not born with that dna

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Talking to top athletes a difference i may have is i was never good enough. I just always worked harder than the other folks to be the best i could be. I am still this way but you see the attacks on st for my fun attitude

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

One reason i have the 4 velotrons is maybe someday someone will want to train with me and get to use first class equipment for free

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I feel vaguely like I've had this conversation with you before. But I had an experience of getting my FTP unstuck.

I've been a pure road cyclist for about 15 years. 10 of those were at Cat 4-5. Trained hard (for a recreational racer with a full-time job) - 10-15 hours per week. Resigned myself to being a Cat 4 lifer. Still had a lot of fun, no worries about it. The one thing I had was consistency. I trained regularly, all the time, just because I enjoyed cycling. A lot. Then with no real change in anything (hours, coaching, weight, etc), something changed big-time. And I gained nearly an entire W/kg at around age 39. Went from Cat 4 to 2 in a matter of months. Really weird for that age. Also weird because I was not new to endurance sports - high school track/XC, collegiate rower. My body had been used to endurance work for nearly 30 years when it happened. Also nothing nefarious, doping, etc.

I've always been wondering if gene expression can change over time. As if my body said, "OK, Jesus Christ, you're not going to effing quit. I'll round up a few more mitochondria, asshole."

Cool story!

there are no skills in running or biking, that's why I like them.. ;-)
it was a revelation to me in high school to find a sport where I could get better by practicing - certainly many hours of practice never helped me in soccer, cricket, rugby, field hockey, etc etc.

Good interview with David Epstein in RW
https://www.runnersworld.com/...re-vs-nurture-debate
"What would you say is the most common misunderstanding about how genetics can influence distance running success?
DE: Among laypeople, I think the biggest misconception is that genes are destiny as opposed to predisposition. The vast majority of genes now, it looks like, just shape your biological predisposition. They aren't certain destiny. Now, that's not true in every case. The genes that give you ten fingers and all the brain chemicals you have and your organs—those are pretty deterministic. But that's the vast minority of traits. Most other traits, genes work in broad networks. They depend on one another and don't crowd out human agency or free will.
But it might mean that you need to manipulate your environment in different ways."

one of those manipulations is to join a training group..

Also from that interview, it seems that work ethic is to some extent genetically determined as well, subject of course to the caveats above.

"When I started looking into the biological basis for physical activity, in the scientific literature it's clear that the dopamine system, which is the reward system in the brain, responds to physical activity. There's no question about that. But it's also pretty clear that it actually drives physical activity as well. Scientists have engineered animals that have dopamine systems that make them want to be physically active, and get depressed and anxious when they aren't. And the more activity they're bred for, the more anxious they get when they're not being active.There's every reason to believe that in humans it functions, to some degree, the same way."

I get anxious when I'm not active, but my wife can be quite relaxed ;-) so finds workout partners and groups are helpful.
My hunting dog gets very wound up if he doesn't get enough exercise, takes it out on the garden, constructing elaborate trench systems across my lawn.

Since this topic has come up several times, the best analogy I can make is this:

You can polish a turd (Mythbusters showed you can), but you can only polish it so far and you need the right material to actually be able to polish the turd. In the end though ... it's still a turd

• This would be somebody with poor genetics ... they will always have poor genetics, but you can do something with it, to a point. But in the end, genetics still set your limits.

A natural diamond doesn't all that great, but given the right hands can be shaped into something beautiful ... and in either shape, it's still a diamond.

• This goes to somebody with great genetics ... In their natural state not great, but the potential is there ... however, with the right training, diet and work ethic will be spectacular to watch. Genetics still set your limits, just a much, much higher level in this case.

All the work in the world isn't going to make a turd great and no matter how hard you try a diamond will still be a diamond!

???

Doesn't sound like you're raced a bike before...

So you weren't too short to play, you just weren't very good.

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High school i was the team mvp. After that yep not good enough to try. Just wanted to get out of college and a real job

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

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Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I would beg to disagree that genetics is overrated. It is a gift. However, just being genetically gifted means nothing. You have to work to make the most of the gift that you have. However, I do agree genetics is not th most important thing. I think dedication, hard work and character are important. With these three things being common, the one with the better genetics will definitely be ahead.