Tri Bike for a newbie?

Dec 30, 17 18:46

Post #1 of 22 (3017 views)

Hi All,

I tried to search for this topic but didn't come up with much. Sorry in advance if this topic has been beat to death already. Total newb to the sport and to the site so I hope these questions aren't totally stupid.

I just started focusing on triathlons about a year ago and did a couple of sprint triathlons in 2017. I am looking to start doing Olympic distances in 2018 and trying to decide if its time to consider a new bike.

I purchased a new Specialized Tarmac about a year ago and love the bike. Nothing wrong with it at all. I've been reading however, that Tri Bikes will help quite a bit with the transition to the run which I felt really affected me.

My question is this, should I make the jump to the Tri Bike or wait another season or two and continue riding the Tarmac. If I buy a Tri Bike, ride that 100% of the time and sell the Tarmac or keep the Tarmac and use the Tri Bike for races? I'm not a great cyclist. I put out on average 215 watts and average about 18 mph. I realize I need to work on getting my power up quite a bit if I really want to see improvements in my race times.

My thought is, why wait and make the jump now. One hesitation is cost, what if I hate the thing. Maybe its not as comfortable and I'll end up wishing I never had switched and then I take a bath on the resale of the bike. The other and I realize this is completely vain.... I'll be that guy who looks like he's trying to buy his way faster. I'm a slow runner so all those people I pass on the bike will pass me on the run. Maybe I should wait a few seasons to get better before buying?

Thanks for listening and I'd value any and all feedback

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 19:24

Post #2 of 22 (2993 views)

mizzouka wrote:

I tried to search for this topic but didn't come up with much. Sorry in advance if this topic has been beat to death already. Total newb to the sport and to the site so I hope these questions aren't totally stupid.

I just started focusing on triathlons about a year ago and did a couple of sprint triathlons in 2017.

Welcome to the sport and to the site. The search function here is not great, but the sport itself is and we hope you stay a while. Triathlon offers a really good lifestyle for those who want to be physically healthy and also for those who are competitive and would like to pursue performance goals, whether individual or collective.

mizzouka wrote:

My question is this, should I make the jump to the Tri Bike or wait another season or two and continue riding the Tarmac.

Just depends. Are you willing to give up probably 3 minutes in a sprint and 6 minutes in an Olympic for the cost of an upgrade of your bicycle? At what price are you able to justify the performance benefits of a new bike?

I always struggle with these threads and questions because for me it is an obvious economic choice that is entirely personal. Would I spend $2,000 incremental on a disc wheel for 3 watts? No. Would I spend $200 more for the same watts, hell yes. But that's me and my financial situation, etc.

What is it that you want? How fast do you want to be? And what are you willing to value that time at? The folks on this board can actually quantify time per dollar, give or take. We can tell you how much you gain from spending $1,000, and how little you gain, above that, by spending $5,000.

The Tarmac is slow. You'll never be in the hunt on that bike. But that's because it is a road bike and you are racing a time trial. But that said, you don't need to spend a million dollars. What is your budget? What are your goals?

Last edited by: kileyay: Dec 30, 17 19:26

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 19:24

Post #3 of 22 (2993 views)

You won't gain that much in Sprint/Olympic distances. Your Tarmac with clip-on aero bars should be fine. If cost is a concern, just ride the Tarmac. If you want a tri bike, buy a good used one. Lots of people buy them and decide they don't really want to do it anymore or decide to upgrade and sell what they have. To improve your run, run more. A tri bike won't really help that much there. And for the record, I could have written this post myself a month ago. I bought a really nice used 2017 P3 for my Christmas present. ;)

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 19:25

Post #4 of 22 (2988 views)

You are probably both new to cycling and new to tri, right? A tri bike is definitely worth it, if you can afford it. It will speed you up significantly. And, it looks super cool.

I was kind of in your shoes exactly two years ago. I got talked into a 70.3 by friends, and it was going to be a one-and-done for me. I had a 30 year old road bike that I planned to ride it on. But, I got hooked and got a tri bike. Totally happy I did.

If you can afford it, I would keep the road bike. Any kind of regular ride is significantly better on a road bike, especially if you are riding with others. And, if you do a big organized ride, like a century, a tri bike is absolutely miserable.

If you average 215W, you should be riding around 20 MPH on a tri bike.

My current high-value favorite is the Shiv Sport. That is $2,200 USD MSRP, but you can probably find it on sale. That is a high-end frame at a bargain price. There are a couple others around $2K or under, but that is probably the fastest. A few folks have posted about new Felt IA 16 bikes on sale at or under $2K, if you see one of those, jump on it!

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 19:55

Post #5 of 22 (2967 views)

How do you know that you are putting out 215 watts?

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 20:11

Post #6 of 22 (2959 views)

Thanks for the input

My goal is really to just be competitive and to me that means finishing in the top 25% of my age group for now. I don’t have time to train more than 8-10 hours a week so I know Ironman and 70.3 are pretty much out of the equation for now. Maybe when the kids get a bit older I’ll be able to spend more time.

Budget is about $2500 and I’ve got a lead on a few different options in that price range. I can only do it now though if i sell the Tarmac and yes, I am a bit concerned I’ll miss it for longer road group rides.

Only way I know watts at this point is my CycleOps Magnus trainer. It’s telling me based on a test that 215 is my average, 18mph is my avg outside but I don’t have a power meter yet. I live around quite a few hills so maybe that has an impact on my speed?

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 20:25

Post #7 of 22 (2950 views)

I am in the same spot. I am looking at used tri bikes in the $500 range Fuji Aloha or Kestrel Talon are two that I see are available on craigslist in my area. Maybe an older cervelo p2 will pop up for a couple hundred more. It always tempting to spend a little more and get more bike but I think I am sticking to the entry level stuff with the plan to updgrade in two years if I am still in the sport. I would just keep the tarmac and add the cheap tri bike if if I was you cause I hate selling something at a loss.

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 20:31

Post #8 of 22 (2944 views)

My suggestion is to get a used one. There are plenty for pretty inexpensive. Then you can figure out what you really want with some experience. You can also tinker with it and upgrade components to it as you go. I used my used bike for the first 3 years. I'm glad I did.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 30, 17 22:28

Post #9 of 22 (2909 views)

I'm a horrible runner, too.. background as cyclist.
If we were honest with ourselves we'd pout in the time/effort to really improve on the run. But what fun is that.
Personally, I'd say get your road bike dialed in with an aero wheelset, flipped seatpost, and clip-on bars. A TT bike would be cool, but I'd regret not having a road bike (or gravel bike).

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 4:03

Post #10 of 22 (2851 views)

mizzouka wrote:

Thanks for the input

My goal is really to just be competitive and to me that means finishing in the top 25% of my age group for now. I don’t have time to train more than 8-10 hours a week so I know Ironman and 70.3 are pretty much out of the equation for now. Maybe when the kids get a bit older I’ll be able to spend more time.

Budget is about $2500 and I’ve got a lead on a few different options in that price range. I can only do it now though if i sell the Tarmac and yes, I am a bit concerned I’ll miss it for longer road group rides.

Only way I know watts at this point is my CycleOps Magnus trainer. It’s telling me based on a test that 215 is my average, 18mph is my avg outside but I don’t have a power meter yet. I live around quite a few hills so maybe that has an impact on my speed?

As others have said it really depends on your goals and whether you have a personality that sticks to certain hobbies. For the past 8 years I have raced 5-6 sprints and olympics per year and also do a bike time trial series where I race another 5 times on the tri bike. I progressed through the road bike adding clip on bars, to a time trial bike. The Tri bike was definately good for 3 minutes on a sprint and 6 on an olympic distance.

You can buy a close out 105 Cervelo P2 for around $2000, and upgrade it with wheels and a PM and get very close to top end bike performance for under $4000. You can also find really good deals on craigslist for older used P2s from one and done ironman types.

I would encourage you to get a tri bike if you think you will stick to it.

Last edited by: endosch2: Dec 31, 17 4:14

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 4:39

Post #11 of 22 (2836 views)

If you race triathlon, you should ride a tri bike. I’d say it’s more important in short course than long as you are actually pushing very hard in short course.

That said, a new bike is more about your finances than you ability. If you can affford it and want it. Buy it.

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 4:55

Post #12 of 22 (2826 views)

Don’t know if I’m adding much beyond what’s been written but...

If you have the money and really want the tri bike go for it. Check out used bikes but if you don’t know what you’re doing find a good mechanic to help you inspect it and very important: make sure you get a good fit! Buy the bike based on your fit, not the reverse.

OTOH I don’t know your money situation but if it were me I’d wait on the tri bike. I’d put clip-on aero bars and get pretty aero on that bike and buy a powermeter (I’d look seriously at Vector 3’s) then spend the next year training to get faster on the bike (swim and run, too). Then I’d save up my money to get a nice mid-range bike. I think that might be a happier route than buying a less expensive one now.

But honestly that is only what I would do and what you are asking is a very personal decision. Your original plan might be what makes you happiest and that’s a perfectly fine approach.

Whatever you do I’m not sure you’re putting in 215 watts and going 18 mph. It will depend on the course and your position and size but that seems slow to me.

Also I don’t think a tri bike will make a big difference with your run over shorter events. Riding too hard definitely will—a PM will help.

Welcome to tri!

Last edited by: michaer27: Dec 31, 17 4:57

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [spookini] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 5:05

Post #13 of 22 (2819 views)

spookini wrote:

I'm a horrible runner, too.. background as cyclist.
If we were honest with ourselves we'd pout in the time/effort to really improve on the run. But what fun is that.
Personally, I'd say get your road bike dialed in with an aero wheelset, flipped seatpost, and clip-on bars. A TT bike would be cool, but I'd regret not having a road bike (or gravel bike).

I agree with the bolded item. I bought a used, entry level tri bike last year. It's great to race on, but I still use the road bike for the majority of my outdoor training rides.

I'm about the same speed as you on the road bike. I picked up about 1.5 mph with the tri bike on semi-aero alloy wheels (DT Swiss Spline R32's). As others have said, that's worth right at 3 minutes in a Sprint and 6 minutes in an Oly. Only you can decided if that's worth the expense. You can get ~half the benefit of a tri bike with a set of clip on aerobars and a Redshift Dual Position Seatpost. The big thing you miss with a clip-ons on a road bike, though, is the ability to shift from the aero position.

FWIW, the second fastest bike split at the first triathlon I did, a local sprint, was done on a Specialized Tarmac without aerobars. Guy was a former crit racer.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Last edited by: gary p: Dec 31, 17 5:11

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

FindinFreestyle

Dec 31, 17 5:31

Post #14 of 22 (2801 views)

exxxviii wrote:

If you average 215W, you should be riding around 20 MPH on a tri bike.

There are riders who can hit 25mph on 215 watts. If you need 215 watts to hit 20 mph, you are a morphological outlier on the large or tall side, or doing something very, very wrong.

To the OP... you said you want to be competitive so buy a tri bike. Or first buy a bike fit for about 200, and then buy a used P2C for about 1000 and keep the road bike.

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 5:52

Post #15 of 22 (2792 views)

FindinFreestyle wrote:

If you average 215W, you should be riding around 20 MPH on a tri bike.

I agree. Once fully outfitted with a decent position (not even great), a good aero helmet, tri suit, rear disc, and deep front wheel, an average rider should easily hit 22 MPH and probably faster.

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [gary p] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 7:18

Post #16 of 22 (2765 views)

gary p wrote:

FWIW, the second fastest bike split at the first triathlon I did, a local sprint, was done on a Specialized Tarmac without aerobars. Guy was a former crit racer.

These stories are always neat and can show how there is no "right' answer. At a sprint duathlon I did this spring the winner who had the 2'nd fastest bike split, was on a BCM TMO1, Envy wheels, Rudy helmet, etc. Guy is an accountant. Some spend for speed, some have talent, some have a bit of both.

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 8:21

Post #17 of 22 (2743 views)

exxxviii wrote:

FindinFreestyle wrote:

If you average 215W, you should be riding around 20 MPH on a tri bike.

I agree. Once fully outfitted with a decent position (not even great), a good aero helmet, tri suit, rear disc, and deep front wheel, an average rider should easily hit 22 MPH and probably faster.

Great point. An aero helmet, tri suit and shoe covers do as much as a more aerodynamic bike. Don't forget these things.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 9:20

Post #18 of 22 (2722 views)

I was in your position and was using a borrowed road bike with clip on aero bars.I bought a new Cervelo P2 in 2016 for $2800, which is a lot of money for me. I liked the looks of the P2 and I cycle I felt "cool" riding it which led to me cycling even more. If you think this sport is for you, it's totally worth ponying up the money for something you want (new or used). Don't get intimidated by all the aero "accessories". Start with the bike and continue building that aerobic engine.

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Dec 31, 17 9:39

Post #19 of 22 (2711 views)

Welcome to ST.

Yes, there are many advantages of a full-on tri bike. But there are also some disadvantages. Not sure if this will be your ideal solution (but it might), but I am also posting this if others reading might have similar issues or questions. We wrote up a quick description of an unusual and highly versatile solution to the tri bike vs road bike dilemma. We call it "the 3rd option":

http://www.darkspeedworks.com/blog-whatbike.htm

Hope it helps,
Greg @ dsw

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Jan 2, 18 12:25

Post #20 of 22 (2546 views)

well I went and tried a few different bikes and ended up purchasing a Scott Plasma 10. Looking forward to getting a few miles on the trainer and see what the fuss is about!

Thank you all for your input. It really did help me

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Jan 3, 18 6:47

Post #21 of 22 (2443 views)

I know I'm late on the thread but if any other newbies are following here's my advice. If you're sure you're going to be doing this for years to come and love the sport, and you are going to be a triathlete for life get yourself a tri-bike. The sooner the better because the handling is going to be a little bit different since you sacrifice almost everything for more speed. If you're new to cycling you'll learn how to ride as a triathlete and become comfortable on aerobars. However if you're still wondering how much you love the sport, and it's your latest athletic "phase" and you only want to do it for a couple years then move on to another activity you should stick with the road bike a little longer. Tri bikes are only good for two things. Time trials and triathlons. Not really meant for commuting, can't even use one in a road race. Group rides will sometimes discourage them because of the aerobars.

I still lapped everyone on the couch!

Re: Tri Bike for a newbie? [mizzouka] [ In reply to ]

Jan 3, 18 8:15

Post #22 of 22 (2397 views)

Do not sell the road bike (unless you have another one). There's a benefit to riding a bike where your shifters and brakes are in the same place when you're on the road with traffic. You're more stable on a road bike if someone buzzes you, too. I rarely ride my tri bike on the road except in races anymore... I've had enough close calls, I ride mainly on rural 2-lane roads where cars pass at around 90km/h. Mind you my tri bike is a twitchy race machine, it doesn't like to go slow and it gives me a heart attack when it's windy.

Also, I don't know if you'd ever consider doing ITU style draft-legal tris (it's really fun, I've done it the past 2 seasons), but if you ever do you'll need a regular road bike. TT bikes are disallowed. My advice is, if finances dictate that you can't get a tri bike without selling your only road bike, keep the road bike, and get some used deep-section wheels and clip-on aerobars.

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