Thanks!

Haha ya, I’ve heard that before. I haven’t had an athlete like this yet, so it is good to know it is common and there are solutions

I'm new to coaching but have had success with self coaching so I'd try reverse psychology.
Tell her to run even longer and see what happens. If she listens and runs for two and half hours then she will really need a rest day and will have to vacation for a day or two. If once again she does the opposite of what you told her she won't run and she'll be back on the training plan.

We should expand on that

Monday morning....R limping into work.


R's Friend: Dude how did you get injured, i thought you had a coach.
R: I do but........

I've seen it plenty of times, when you take on an athlete, the community takes notice. So how that athlete trains/races is going to come back on you. Now of course it's easier when it's a remote coach and you can "hide" that you coach said person, but people take notice when athletes have coaches. And they take doubly notice when said athlete gets injured with a coach. So it sucks when the athlete goes stupid and causes injury and then makes the coach look bad because it does make the coach look bad, whether you want to acknowledge that or not.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Honestly, I have not read a single post on his crank length and Velotron. Which has been fine by me. That's why I posted it separately.

I think Dave is fine with the powers that be. Living in a section of FL where most people are over 60 and the young cut us a lot of slack. Dave is just dealing with his legacy/mortality and humor may be more apropos than criticism. He certainly is doing well in his AG.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

Very true, I do a lot of larger group coaching, and people know who I am coaching privately as well. An athlete who runs wild and gets hurt (and who may be vocal about it as well) is definitely not worth whatever monthly fee I would be charging

As a coach, be mindful of the athlete who appreciates your patience with them. They can be some of your best customers and referral sources.

Thinking back on some successes, many were thrilled with how slow or at their pace that I went with them. No scolding as they are adults. While I was expecting/hoping for results far faster, it didn't matter to them if they took twice as long and paid me double. Eventually it didn't matter to me either and we often became great friends.

Good luck on being patient and making more money from it.

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Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.

There are several ways to handle this but it is more on you in what you want to do.

1) You can warn her that she agreed (if stated in the fine print) to do what you instruct, and stick to your guns...which some coaches want the $$ and references to get more athletes in the stable so say nothing--or find another approach to get her to do the training (through classes or adjusting her current program). But as IT said, they can be a good reference and stick around if you're patient & can make progress with them, even if it does take a little longer.

2) Offer her a general plan instead with "float days" where as long as she doesn't do more or much less, she can arrange it how she wants...maybe she doesn't need a day to day DO THIS program. But a loose knit xyz-hill day, xyz-long day, xyz speed day & a floater rest day.

3) Play along until she realizes it herself...that she's paying you for something she's not doing. Then when her results don't add up she blames YOU and things you're a crappy coach & then she's gone out of your stable anyhow.

It's tough to be a hard ass because you don't want to be confrontational, you want them to like you. But goals are only met with the work. Maybe talk to her on the realism of her goals and what it will take along the way to get there--adjust accordingly. Some folks start with guns blazing all amped up to tackle a goal for a short time, then fade & fade & become quiet, stop entering in the logs...then you have to gripe after them because you're needing data to see how you'll adjust their program. Eventually, your time and frustration may win out & you realize you can't change the way some people are. They don't need a coach, they need a baby sitter.

I've had to let go of several clients because of various reasons...such as not doing the program at all, or saying they were tired when they got home from work consistently--then when they did do something it wasn't what the program said & they went overboard & then end up trashed for days. Or they got sick because instead of a recovery day the weather was nice & they decided they wanted to do a 3.5 hour cross country ski at ski marathon threshold. In the end, it's up to you to decide: WHAT KIND OF COACH DO YOU WANT TO BE and WHO DO YOU WANT TO COACH?

I don't think many coaches would argue any extra $$ would be nice, but are the headaches worth it & are you looking out for the best interest of the athlete and your time? Some would say never turn a dollar down (because someone else will take them right?)--but I'd suggest those are the greedy ones & doing the coaching business a disservice to themselves, their family & betray what is in the best interest of the athlete.

That said, if all she could do is run, with no bike/pool/gym access, that is another line all together. But since it is early on in the relationship, reset the expectations and cap limits. Let her know too much running so early without base can lead to overuse & sickness issues. But you may have done that. I've been where you are before early on in my coaching career & I ended up saying the $$ just wasn't worth the stress and time. I'm not a babysitter. What a relief it was to move along from them.

I think you are getting a good glimpse of what kind of athlete you picked up to coach. You will learn that some are coachable and some are not. I typically do not click with those that "do not need a coach". I try to steer away. My intro questionnaire that I hand out serves as grounds for discussion before the actual coaching starts. It is that time that I warmly suggest to my future prospective athletes that this is a mutual eval process if we are a good fit for each other. I listen well what the athlete expectations are and I clearly introduce my coaching philosophy and methodology. The expectations are set both ways.
I did have an athlete that was "semi compliant" and I wish I have let him go sooner. We parted ways at the end of last season on a very friendly note. I would not pick him up again.
I also dealt with the a female athlete that was partially compliant and lots and lots of missed work followed up be overdoing things.....It lead to a career ending injury before the actual training really started.
Both of these examples are testament that I still need a lot of work screening athletes. Much like a good surgeon, they do not operate just on anybody, they screen and screen to assure that the patient fits the model of treatment. Improve your screening model and possibly communication accuracy as to what your expectations are. Reeling somebody back in is what you will be doing a lot, however there has to be a progressive learning curve for the athlete and build of trust and confidence in you and your ways. Not an easy task.
I would recommend counselling first, explaining to more depth importance of disciplined approach of adherence to the plan. After that, if the same behavior persists, I would personally let it go, based on what I know now and my experience, better to let go if you are not effective. It is the ethical thing to do. I would not want to "preside" over creation of injuries that will affect one's health and financial well being. This is just my 2c. We are all different and draw different boundaries.

I see these threads pop up from time to time. There are generally two types of tri athletes seeking out coaching services. One is the newbie to the sport that is training for their first or second event. The second type is the one that has plenty of experience in tri. They are seeking coaching services strictly to improve their performance. Two different situations that need different coaching directions. What we are talking about here applies to all sports. The OP's case appears to be the first. The hardest thing for a newbie to any sport is getting acclimated to the rigors and dynamics of that particular sport. A large percentage of new tri athletes are adult onset athletes anyway. They don't have any experience with the commitments needed for any sport at a high level. No experience with the ebb and flow of a season or the highs and lows. This appears to be the case of the OP's athlete. The best advice that the OP can give is for the athlete to forget about a half or full IM this coming year. Take this year and do plenty of short course racing and get some experience with Tri life. The coach can give some general plans with training/nutrition/etc. advice and let the athlete figure out the rest. They can communicate every couple of months to see how it is going. At the end of the season they can talk and see if the athlete is ready to step up to the next level or not. Most likely you get a triathlete for life to coach that is ready to listen. Too much too soon and they will become a one and doner. It also takes a while to get the body and mind in shape just to survive the rigors of heavy training, particularly the connective tissue of the joints and muscles.