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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [Bumble Bee] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. I hear you. Even things that sound basic enough to quote by sq ft often aren't.

House framing: around here, prices can justifiably range from $5.00 to $20 a sq ft. And there's always some idiot throwing in a bid at $7/ft no matter how complex the build or challenging the site who usually builds spec boxes at $5 and thinks he will make money at $7 at something more challenging.

Foundations: a lot of contractors use a unit price per cubic meter of concrete. The first job I ever bid on was the foundations for three houses, but the walls were 6" instead of the usual 8". So, 25% less volume for the same amount of form work. I bid using the price for 8" walls and the builder baulked saying my per unit price was way higher then expected. We ended up meeting in the middle, and I got absolutely hosed on the project. Served me right for being young and stupid.

Long Chile was a silly place.
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [Leddy] [ In reply to ]
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Leddy wrote:
cholla wrote:
$30K? Are they building a new wing on to your house to include the AC?


30k would be a little high but not completely
out of the ballpark. I’ve had estimates from 23-25k for new heat and AC installed. But I have no duct work currently with the radiant heat we have so it’s a bit more work.
We need to install AC and I haven't found out the prices for such works. It seems I should be ready to spend a big sum of money.
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
shoff14 wrote:

My thoughts after the quoting process that this goes both ways. Contractors are too lazy to quote detail because 90% of the people they are quoting don't understand the detail or don't care. When a contractor meets someone that is into the detail, this is likely the person they don't want to have to deal with because they will catch a problem that 99% of people won't catch. Giving a crappy quote likely won't land them the job that they don't want in the first place.

Next year the wife and I are most likely going to start looking at a kitchen reno + flooring for the main floor. FML when I need to go through that process.


Yeah, that makes sense. The contractor I ended up going with provided a good medium level of detail. For example, he broke out the costs of permitting the unit. Which is significant - around $1000 - and he walked me through everything involved including meeting a city inspector at the house, etc. It seems it's in a contractor's best interest to break things like that out because otherwise a customer doesn't know what's involved in permitting and just adding $1000 to the total looks no different than just jacking up the price.

Mostly I appreciated that he went through the entire estimate with me over about an hour, while he was making it, asking questions each step of the way, down to specific model #'s of each piece of equipment. Rather than all the others who just sent them to me after the fact and assumed I had no interest in picking specific components.

I guess it's two approaches to business:

1) Get as many estimates done as quickly as possible. With the theory that putting extra time into estimates just doesn't pay off in margin or "conversion rate."
2) Go all-in with each estimate. Take a big loss of 3-4 hours of labor on unconverted estimates, but pay off in higher conversion rate/margin (and possibly long-term reputation).

2) certainly works better on me.

I agree with trail. Deal is, to me, it comes off as being a hack and dishonest. Frankly. The poster above saying a detail oriented customer will catch things making it not worth doing the work for them? That's just sleazy.

I notice folks might get a better deal with a jack leg outfit that has zero breakout and a lower quote up front, but then the back end comes with the problems making that up front deal sour. Be it ballooning scope to makeup for that bad quote, or shoddy work.

We almost always go with the more professional outfit that gives an acceptably detailed quote (not superfluous but not just a scribble on a napkin).

One thing that makes no sense to me also is places sending out gophers to quote shit they know nothing about. We had a tree go through the roof years ago and one guy showed up to quote the work. Wife called me at work to ask me about some of the damage, as the guy couldn't find it in the attic.

Not knowing the guy was on speaker on the phone I said "the idiot can't see the 2' x 3' hole and the three in a row cracked trusses?". Yeah, they didn't get that work.

There's very practical reasons for basic quote detail. It shows the contractor agrees with the customer on the scope of work. Work doesn't have scope if it isn't stated. If a contractor doesn't list a $1000 inspection then that might not be in scope then suddenly "sorry, that'll be $1000 or you need to arrange that yourself" kind of junk.

One to watch for with hvac groups hiding things under a bulk price is the skyrocket cost of legacy refrigerants. You get a new system replacing old and your old system was basically full of "gold" worth way more than the time labor to extract it. Not sure how that goes state by state as some it's a loss as they can't reuse it anywhere at all, but pretty sure they can recover/reuse it to top up existing systems not being replaced.
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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I don't mind to pay for the renovations of course, but always want to know what i am paying for.
A detailed price breakdown and a simple contract is an absolute must.
And when it comes to the air conditioning i think it is easier to make hvac contract (something like that https://lawrina.com/...lates/hvac-contract/ ), just to be on the safe side.
Last edited by: MitchMcCrown: Dec 19, 22 0:47
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [BessYa] [ In reply to ]
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We just replaced our AC and replaced the Oil Heater at the same time. It would have been $5k for an upgrade to the electric to cover a heat pump so we stayed with oil. 2,400 foot house and it cost $20k.

We got a half dozen estimates with each company being slightly different in services and cost.

The one thing that surprised us was that no company mentioned the old, and inoperable humidifier/dehumidifier in the estimates.(It is actually attached to the system so we still don’t understand). When the service technician came in months after install he said our old humidifier wasn’t working and would cost $2,200 to replace or $600 to fix.
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [Dan Os Fan] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Os Fan wrote:
We just replaced our AC and replaced the Oil Heater at the same time. It would have been $5k for an upgrade to the electric to cover a heat pump so we stayed with oil. 2,400 foot house and it cost $20k.

We got a half dozen estimates with each company being slightly different in services and cost.

The one thing that surprised us was that no company mentioned the old, and inoperable humidifier/dehumidifier in the estimates.(It is actually attached to the system so we still don’t understand). When the service technician came in months after install he said our old humidifier wasn’t working and would cost $2,200 to replace or $600 to fix.

We replaced our 30 year old (yes, it lasted 30 years!) gas furnace and A/C last March: $11,000, including a slightly larger furnace.

We were in the middle of a kitchen renovation when the furnace stopped putting out warm air on a Saturday morning. Called the GC to see if the plumber, who was doing gas work the previous day, had broken anything. They assured us he did not. GC recommended his HVAC guy, who came out that night (Saturday) in a snow storm. Figured out quickly that the exchanger was cracked (luckily, the system was smart enough to turn off the burners when it recognized the problem). Said he'd see if his supplier would open on Sunday to get a replacement; they didn't. Came out Monday morning and replaced everything (including hooking up the permanently attached humidifier) that day.

Unbelievable service. Guy said he'd never seen a furnace go that long.

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [Dan Os Fan] [ In reply to ]
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Got a quote for a new furnace/ac and hot water heater… 15k about 8 years ago. The new AC and the associated electrical were a good chunk. I put in a new 97% efficient furnace and on demand hot water heater for about $3.5k and 2 or 3 cases of beer. I installed the exchanger for AC but not the condenser or outside unit.

I will not consider a quote from a company that will not do a cost breakdown… I don’t need to the screw and roll of tape but you should be able to tell me hardware, design, permitting, installation with reasonable numbers.

I have told multiple solar companies to GTFO after burning and hour or so of their time for this reason. It is 35k.. ok so the panels and inverters you are quoting are 7k if I order them myself. Can you give me a cost breakdown so I have an idea what my other 28k is buying. Is seemed to be a 30% markup because well you are getting a tax credit. Or the system will be 35k. Estimated 20 panels… what do you mean estimated. Well we will measure the roof to see what we can fit after you sign the contract and pay our deposit. I did not get to ask him for a cost breakdown.

Unfortunately people will sign these “quotes” and it is all financed so when it comes to signing the final paperwork most people don’t care/don’t notice if extra is tacked on.
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Our A/C went out during the heat wave last summer and decided to replace the 37 year old oil furnace at the same time. Figured it would be pushing it not to do both at the same time.

Of course they finished the install the day the heat wave ended. It was 80 in the basement where I was sleeping. And the state changed the regs so we needed a 6mm liner instead of 4 so we didn’t get heat until November, after the cold snap that made it 57’ in the house.

I think our cost may be higher because of the area we live. Builders love to tack on a surcharge for the area.
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Re: Air Conditioning Install Estimate [trail] [ In reply to ]
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I can sympathize with you as I am currently in the middle of the similar project.

No one has given me a detailed breakdown quote. On a 23K project there have been quotes +/- 25%

I have a 1969 florida classic home in east boca raton. All trade work around here is on the high side if you want a licensed insured and reputable company. If you are willing to take your chances with a guy and a truck you can save. In my situation I wasn't willing to do so.

Demo the existing plenum and all the original attic duck work from 1969. Remove the existing exterior package unit and pad and replace with a new brand name unit. It's an over/under and Trane / American Standard is about all there is. Redesign the entire attic system with new drops in new places and add returns.

I did look at moving the air handler inside to get a more efficient unit but I can't surrender any garage space as I am in only 1500 sq ft and the seer gain was 2-3.

The exterior is done on a new 175mph concrete pad and looks good, nice new doghouse. The inside had to wait for permits which around here is a 4 week thing excluding holidays. Just got the go ahead as they need all the plans on paper but we are traveling for the holiday. The ducts will wait until January.

My 2 cents..... I have another story about my electric upgrades. We can save that for another post.
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