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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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Ed thanks. It is surprising how "super twitchy" a bike can get when one is nervous. That bike that seemed pretty stable just minutes ago seems like it could go to the shop for inspection.

Do try to follow the wheels. They do point things out. Yet they are invariably more familiar with the course, corners and known hazards than I am.

Getting better at hitting a hazard though and even had someone switch and hit my front wheel with their rear while staying up right. Maybe the Conti 25s help too.

Will try again. There is a Tuesday/Thursday AM ride where their is an old "coach" and maybe he can help. I'll go see and continue the calming while these strangers want to go faster and faster down the road.

I could probably train on my own doing more surges too. Maybe too many TT like efforts in regular training.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Group riding is the best, but knowing who to trust and who not to is an important part of it. I generally know most of the people I ride with or have ridden with them before. There are only a few that I will follow at high speed a few inches from their wheel and feel completely comfortable with it. We have enough thousands of miles together to be comfortable doing that. Others I have ridden with a lot and I still won't get closer than half a bike length. They have proven themselves to be unpredictable and sometimes downright dangerous, so I give them a longer gap. Nothing wrong with leaving some space if you don't fully trust the wheel in front of you. But also work on yourself and learn to trust, because riding right on the wheel of a good mate at 28mph sharing in the suffering is what makes cycling fun!

One of the biggest impediments I see to people becoming competent and trustworthy group riders is being stuck in their ways or not being open to teaching or criticism. You don't sound that way, but if you are not being actively taught then seek out help. Go to the "old coach" and ask him for help. Ask him to watch you and provide feedback. Ask him who can be trusted in the group and try to ride those wheels. A good cycling mentor is what makes people stay in it long term and become competent riders and thus able to contribute themselves.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Things to think about

1.) How is vision?
2.) Can you reach and operate brakes from all positions on the bike?
3.) How is brake adjustment? Some people ride with their brake pads so close to the rim that they have zero modulation- this is a mistake. Some experienced riders even ride with their rear brake quite loose.
4.) How is ability to regulate?
Can you keep the same relative place in the pace line without constantly hitting brakes? This can involve letting up on the pedals when needed, changing body position to catch more or less wind, etc. But basically holding the wheel smoothly without a lot of braking, also not riding up into the wheel of the rider ahead, or overlapping them.
5.) Is the speed of the group appropriate for the rider? If a group ride is too fast, a rider may have to go really deep just to not get dropped. This makes it hard t concentrate on the skills needed to be smooth.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [IT] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure if your friend is capable or interested in it, but having him learn to ride old-school rollers (not the fancy $700 ones, the $<120 ones that are super simple and have no 'assist' features) would smoothen him out real fast and make it a lot easier for him to learn the group ride etiquette.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [bootsie_cat] [ In reply to ]
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Getting vision checked this week with some new glasses.

Is the speed of the group appropriate for the rider? Not while I'm shaking. Started Saturday's B ride a shaking and then an hour later was taking pulls at the front and staying in the top 8 of a group of 20+ riders. We averaged 20.1mph with way too much stop and go for me. My ride solo to this was a 20.2mph average with far fewer stops.

Except for some surges and hills where I max out my heart rate, I can do the speed 20-25mph they are doing. Absolutely can't do it when the nerves are in the way. Wow, if I could keep my wits about me, I'd be tempted to wheel suck the A group.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:
Not sure if your friend is capable or interested in it, but having him learn to ride old-school rollers (not the fancy $700 ones, the $<120 ones that are super simple and have no 'assist' features) would smoothen him out real fast and make it a lot easier for him to learn the group ride etiquette.

So right about price. Will probably look at some at Performance under $200. Hopefully not too noisy.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [IT] [ In reply to ]
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I feel for the guy, but if he’s threatening the safety of others in a bunch, then it’s time to hang it up. A ride I join most weekends has another member in his 60s who frequently hits the deck for no apparent reason whatsoever. He’s renowned for it and people try to give him as much space as possible. If I just got off the front and I need up near him, I’m heading back up to the front again. Again, I sympathise...I’m just not looking to end up in hospital because someone either can’t recognise their own limits or, medically, maybe shouldn’t be riding in close proximity to others.

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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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I think you're tackling this problem in the right way. All the advice I've read here makes sense.

My 2 cents: its very reasonable to be wary and nervous at the beginning of the ride. I find myself nervous and unable to chit chat before my weekend group rides. I'm scared of the goosey riders who are so unpredictable. I'm scared of the pain I plan for my legs. My feelings run high. I am overstimulated.

So, I reduce sensory input. I look at the ground and try to relax before the ride starts. I say nice, soothing things to myself (silently). I kind of turn inward, if you get my drift.

Making changes to your gear might really help. I rode my gravel bike on my last group ride. I liked it. I tend to feel more stable on that beast compared to my tri bike.

Riding in a group is fun! Keep at it!
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [mongooseman] [ In reply to ]
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mongooseman wrote:
I feel for the guy, but if he’s threatening the safety of others in a bunch, then it’s time to hang it up. A ride I join most weekends has another member in his 60s who frequently hits the deck for no apparent reason whatsoever. He’s renowned for it and people try to give him as much space as possible. If I just got off the front and I need up near him, I’m heading back up to the front again. Again, I sympathise...I’m just not looking to end up in hospital because someone either can’t recognise their own limits or, medically, maybe shouldn’t be riding in close proximity to others.

Agree with you completely. There's still the enjoyment of riding alone or riding with just one or two other riders.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [CalamityJane88] [ In reply to ]
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Good observations. I could probably do more prior to the ride to calm myself. Maybe even a pre-ride to warm myself up, make certain of my bike and to calm myself away from the other excited talkers would be helpful.

And the bike... Currently have a Fuji Transonic which seems just fine riding alone. Now it's in my head that a compliant frame might be better than an aero frame. Yet, I can't find any data on compliant frames other than a reviewers perception.

Fairly convinced that going with a bigger tire has helped. From Conti 23s to 25s.

The switch to Di2 has also helped in that I don't have a bad gear shift on the ride and not at a disadvantage there.

Indoor Triathlete - I thought I was right, until I realized I was wrong.
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [IT] [ In reply to ]
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IT wrote:
Agree with you completely. There's still the enjoyment of riding alone or riding with just one or two other riders.

:-) I've come to that point anyway.

A number of years ago I took over as ride leader because the current one was burned out on being ride leader. This role included preparing a route, stops and everything else. I would send the email out many times by Wednesday and I would see that email going well beyond the regular club members inviting friends and those friends inviting friends. The email clearly stated that it was a "no-mercy" ride and that the pace would be 18+ average over the course. Yet on Saturday at times there would be over 50 cyclists and most of them we did not know. Man that sucked so bad. Strangers showing up and griping about the route, the pace was too fast, they were going to get dropped and fear of getting lost, terrible group skills, not obeying rules like getting into a single line to let cars pass (that was one of our rules), riding 5 and 6 abroad and some over the yellow center line. Then with that many there would be multitudes of flats, broken cables, broken spokes etc. We'd do a store stop and it seemed like it would take an hour to get everyone's attention. Since I was the ride leader, and even though we said no-mercy rules, I had to drop off the back and ride at less than 12 mph with those who were cramping, mechanical issues and/or bonked and should not have be in the group in the first place. After a year of this I was broken from wanting to ride with a group. It was a terrible experience and most of it came from obnoxious strangers that were not even part of our club membership.

The great thing about that bad experience as a roadie I ended up going completely solo, got a tri bike and fell in love with being out there in the peace and quiet. Now when I ride in a group it is with people that I have spent many hours and miles and know the cycling traits of each and I try to stay in a group of maybe 5 or less. It's been about 5 years since I was in that ride leader role and the last several the majority of my miles have been solo. I do like the small group friendship, but I have also come to really like those solo miles. And my cycling performance has improved since going solo as well. When I rejoin roadies that spend very little time in the front pulling with constant rotation and a lot of time drafting I find my endurance pretty good because most of my miles are steady pace/effort and facing the wind with no relief.

I love cycling solo. Be a ride leader for a big group for about a year and you'll adore those peaceful long miles. :-)
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Re: Shaky riding while cycling in a group, asking for a friend over 55 ;) [IT] [ In reply to ]
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IT wrote:
My friend has the darndest times cycling with a group of riders, especially at the beginning of a ride because he is shaky and twitchy on his bike. All are on road bikes. Going straight down the road on the flat. Generally goes away once warmed up; yet can reappear if the going gets fast and is feeling crowded. Used to ride and race comfortably in a group years ago and it's frustrating.

Like a speed wobble without the downhill. It can happen on slight uphill if everyone is going fast and closed tight in.

Bad case of the nerves? Will he grow out of it at 63 or will it be a new normal? Will more practice riding in a group normalize it?

Seems largely visual, the inability to see down the road is kind of scary. Wants to echelon out of the line to look down the road. Backing off to a half length or a full bike length can help some. Of course going off the back would take care of it all together.

Fitness does not seem to be the issue as he can average ( 20mph ) what the group averages over a two hour period. Does not happen when riding alone (well it does over 35mph on an unfamiliar steep downhill).

Visual? A form of claustrophobia? Ride more than once a week in a group? Cure(s)? Happen to anyone else?

I started getting more shaky in packs around age 47 (I'm a former cat 1 road racer for whom pack skills had always been a strength). Turned out my previously 20/20 vision had deteriorated (slowly, so I didn't really notice it in everyday life), and I was a bit nearsighted. Corrective lenses took care of it and I was back to "normal" in pack situations.

Another trick is to peek out the side of the group (just using your shoulders & neck, not moving your bike more than a few inches) every so often in order to see what's coming up, without getting out of the draft or disrupting the group. I can often see over the top of the riders in front of me, but I'm over 6' tall. For many riders peeking out the side is the only way.
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