Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jorgan wrote:
Just goes to show how impressive those low 2:07 runs by Steve Jones & Carlos Lopez were in 1985.
Lopes* :)
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Thorax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now you know how Brits feel with those darned American spell checkers ;)

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jorgan wrote:
Now you know how Brits feel with those darned American spell checkers ;)
I've always known! ;)
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jorgan wrote:
Just goes to show how impressive those low 2:07 runs by Steve Jones & Carlos Lopez were in 1985.


exactly...I loved watching Carlos Lopes. More impressive to me than what we see today. I just assume that all modern day 'records' are drug assisted.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rhayden wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Just goes to show how impressive those low 2:07 runs by Steve Jones & Carlos Lopez were in 1985.



exactly...I loved watching Carlos Lopes. More impressive to me than what we see today. I just assume that all modern day 'records' are drug assisted.

Dude, there are ways to check if he cheated.

Just because you and yours don't want (to pay) for people to be checked for that, doesn't mean you get a 'card blanche' to piss yourself out of it.

Lopes wasn't checked for anything.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windschatten wrote:
rhayden wrote:
Jorgan wrote:
Just goes to show how impressive those low 2:07 runs by Steve Jones & Carlos Lopez were in 1985.



exactly...I loved watching Carlos Lopes. More impressive to me than what we see today. I just assume that all modern day 'records' are drug assisted.

Dude, there are ways to check if he cheated.

Just because you and yours don't want (to pay) for people to be checked for that, doesn't mean you get a 'card blanche' to piss yourself out of it.

Lopes wasn't checked for anything.

I'm not certain I understand your post.

I don't know what testing protocols there were in 1984 Olympics or if Lopes was tested. I know that there was some testing done. I do not know if he was tested at his 10000m races or his XC championships.

We do know that drugs are rampant in today's higher level endurance sport. We do know that people are getting busted all the time. We also know that people are able to 'never test posititive' yet go faster than those that do test positive. We know that people who fail drug tests and have suspensions often come back 'clean' yet faster than before their suspensions. we do know that previously mid pack elites can become front of the pack with readily available drugs and suppliers.

Yes this sucks for the true outlier who may be the best ever in their chosen sport. this sucks for the subject of this thread whose achievements will be looked at with skepticism. Until there is a fool proof test that unfortunately is life.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
This is the same mentality that has been brewing in Sweden the past few weeks, guilty until proven innocent.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Steve Jones was in the Air Force, so the likelihood of him doping is particularly low if they did random testing back then too. He also smoked iirc 😁

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Random drug testing in the Air Force is not checking for Peds.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Given what comes out about endurance athletes on a seemingly weekly basis, it's perfectly reasonable & forgivable for someone to be sceptical when an athlete does what this Norwegian fella has done over the past few months.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [pk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In this case you have to see that as an approx 20 year old he has some serious results so its not like he never showed talent. and he can certainly claim he has the talent.


If only we had an example of another young athlete showed incredible potential and then went on to have a dominating career. Someone who raised eyebrows in certain circles but whose defenders used his early success to justify his performance.




Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [oscaro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
oscaro wrote:
Well forgetting the fact that people here are assholes, Moen has underperformed a long time due to injury. He ran some amazing times in high school/college and has changed his training philosophy and mileage a lot since starting with Canova. He now lives and trains at altitude all year around, and follows Canovas hard marathon training plan. There are som great details into his training here http://www.letsrun.com/...d=8495930&page=6
I think it is really low to accuse people of doping without any evidence at all.

I didn't accuse anyone. But I absolutely have the right to be skeptical. Nothing low about it. Do I believe he endurance world and its fans have the right to be skeptical of performances like this? Absolutely. If you aren't skeptical, that's your right. Naive, in my opinion, but your right.

Sport has brought this skepticism onto itself. If you (as an elite athlete) are going to enter into the fray, you will have to deal with it. Fair or not, it just is.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Sanuk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sanuk wrote:
In this case you have to see that as an approx 20 year old he has some serious results so its not like he never showed talent. and he can certainly claim he has the talent.


If only we had an example of another young athlete showed incredible potential and then went on to have a dominating career. Someone who raised eyebrows in certain circles but whose defenders used his early success to justify his performance.



In a way what he did is very similar what patrick lange did 2016. guy was always a solid athlete, then starts to train with a coach that mayb e found something or maybe just gave him conifdence .( if you remember after kona 2016 he hardly said a sentence that did not include the word faris in it )
very few people called doping in this case ( and to be clear neither do I )

for me that a european guy can run 2.06 is not that special, i would think its more crazy that took till 2017 somebody broke 2.06.
of course going from 2.10 to just under 2.06 is crazy but at the same time 230 days at altitude inlast 12 month . and heck of a lot of running and a 13.20 5000 m in the first half of the year , i guess i 2.07 would not be a super suprise. it would appear he had virtualy no injury issues in the last 12 month.
I hate to say it it does seen that those N.ke shoes are fast and maybe this is where another min comes from.
I want him to be clean and want him to be tested constantly and then we will see in 10 -15 years if it was clean when the samples are retested.

its of course intersting that also canova would not have thought this to be possible not long ago when he said that he thought he could break 2.06 by 2020 it would seem he would have thought too it will take 1 or 2 years longer but so did faris think.



Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jorgan wrote:
Steve Jones was in the Air Force, so the likelihood of him doping is particularly low if they did random testing back then too. He also smoked iirc 😁

I know quite well a very good runner who was also in the RAF and had some very good battles with Steve Jones. I can promise you they are both very anti doping. In fact I've heard him claim that the African's only beat their times because of drugs.

The biggest point I took away from this was the simple life style needed to focus and win word class running races. I think about my own running club which had it's glory days in the 1950s. We had only just come off food rationing. There was no access to the internet to read about the latest training advice. No protein shakes, SIS gels or GPS watches. I'm pretty sure that over 50 years later Gordon Pirie's 3 mile club records still stands.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
UK military test for recreational & prescription drugs, and steroids. I think that covers most bases now, and certainly in 1985. How many amateurs are going to mess about with EPO or transfusions? Certainly if it will cost you your job & pension.

29 years and counting
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Halvard wrote:
Jordano wrote:
mungub50 wrote:
Goes to Kenya, trains with Canova, and BAM throws down an unbelievable time. I think he also ran a 59:xx earlier this year.


I know right!? When he finally started eating that special Kenyan gruel and drinking milky tea and running with the barefooted school children he shaved 6 or 8 minutes off the old marathon time. They sure know how to do it over there.


Interesting view.
Do you consider endurance athletes and especially cyclists training in North America for doping too. All great North American cyclists have been dopers, so all cyclists training in North America have to be dopers.

I consider that Kenya is the Bermuda triangle of drug testing and Canova has more than a passing similarity to Dr. Ferrari. If the Rift Valley had good facilities for cycling I am sure top pros would be making camp up there. I have no proof this guy is doping but the dots are there to connect.

Professional Athlete: http://jordancheyne.wordpress.com/ http://www.strava.com/athletes/145340

Coaching Services:http://www.peakformcoaching.com/

Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Jordano] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If I recall, the same happened with Benoit Zwierzchiewski (aka Benoit Z for obvious reasons) of France. Always around 2:08-2:10. Goes to Kenya, comes back and runs 2:06:3x...got involved later in some doping controversy and just retired.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Francois] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Aside from doping. It is interesting that Sondres 5k and 10k times would not suggest such world class times in the half and marathon. There was also discussion about his "pedestrian" 400m Speed. I find that interesting as there seem to be certain athletes whose talent lie in the long stuff. Maybe more speed is not always better.

On the same note. Galen Rupp is arguably the most talented non african runner and additionaly he had world class coaching and profited from top of the notch fascilities and science from a young age on. He had a great start into Marathon running with his Boston and Chicago and Olympics. But I am not sure if he will ever run 2:05. Moen is a real grinder for sure.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
lovegoat wrote:

Just to add to this. Not only do people lack evidence, they lack any knowledge what-so-ever on the runner. . .


not true. they know he isn't american, which on slowtwitch is often enough evidence to confirm doping.

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Not true. The Poster above brought up an American that has benefited from science, world class facilities, and coaches from an early age. HA!! If he means T from an early age then yeah, I guess he has a point.

Don’t worry, there are plenty of American dopers.

https://twitter.com/mungub
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [mungub50] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mungub50 wrote:
Not true. The Poster above brought up an American that has benefited from science, world class facilities, and coaches from an early age. HA!! If he means T from an early age then yeah, I guess he has a point.

Don’t worry, there are plenty of American dopers.

Yes, but I can bring up Galen Rupp without any patriotic bias as I am no American and have never lived there.

When comparing Rupp to Moen there is much more smoke on the first one then on the latter. But even assuming a level playing field, Moen is still pretty darn outstanding in the Mary.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
In the 'it's a small world' department: I have two sons training in Iten, Kenya this week, and they ran into Sondre this morning. My youngest took a selfie with him. I would upload it for you but it exceeds the 250KB limit.
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [HuffNPuff] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
HuffNPuff wrote:
In the 'it's a small world' department: I have two sons training in Iten, Kenya this week, and they ran into Sondre this morning. My youngest took a selfie with him. I would upload it for you but it exceeds the 250KB limit.

So they either ran really fast or the opposite directon huh? :)


Joking aside - and as a response to other posts that yours - It's of course understandable that eyebrows are raised when some previously little know dude posts awesome times. As an aside, this kinda resembles Chris Froom's entrance to high-level GT-riding in 2012.


Based on history it's a sad but true fact that large parts of surprising/outstanding performances have been aide by some controversy and/or doping. Everyone is naturally free to choose their own approach in viewing these fansastic performances, but its tempting to ask what it would take for the general sceptic to accept an outstanding result as legit? Its hard to prove something (doping) didnt happen. Is the test of time the only validator?
Quote Reply
Re: Fastest marathon by a non African born runner,Norwegian Sondre Moen 2.05.48 [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My sons are good runners, but not professional...they can keep up on the easy runs. One of them has business ties to Kenya and is good friends with a boatload of Kenyan pro runners. He stayed with Paul Chelimo (5K Silver at Rio) when he was there in January of this year...and he didn't come home any faster.

As a former 2:29 marathoner, I am very skeptical of most times achieved these days, particularly knowing how hard I worked for mediocre results. I'm even more skeptical today as a 60 year old BOFOP triathlete. I'm not leveling accusations at anyone in particular, but agree with you that huge breakthoughs and outlier results should be taken with a grain of salt.
Quote Reply

Prev Next