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JFK Conspiracy
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Visited Dealey Plaza in Dallas recently and talked to a few conspiracy guys about the assassination. I was always of the opinion it was LHO alone as conspiracies take a lot of work and just easier to assume it was a single disgruntled guy instead of a high level group plan with lots of moving parts. However the things I found interesting are the following:

1. LHO was in the lunch room at the book depository minutes after the shooting ( on the 2nd floor, not the 6th)
2. There were witnesses in the stairwells at the book depository that said they never saw LHO run down the stairs after the shooting,
3. The doctors at Parkland stated the bullets in JFK neck and back came from in front of him;
4. There were no eyewitnesses saying LHO ever shot officer Tippet,
5. They found spent shells on the roof of the book depository, ( someone else was up there shooting)
6. Witnesses at the scene ran to the grassy noll because they were sure that is where the shooting came from;
7. The parade route was changed a day before the parade.

These are just a few of the points the conspiracy folks use to support their case. I have always been a single shooter guy but now not so sure.

What do you think? I assumed most of the US thinks LHO acted alone but I was told polls of the US population show more people believe it was a conspiracy.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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Don't believe everything you hear.

Conspiracy theories have been thoroughly debunked, repeatedly. When someone says, "Well, bullet casings on the roof of the Book Depository building PROVE LHO didn't shoot Kennedy" you can translate it as, "Well there's a new NASA picture that shows a reflection in a helmet visor that PROVES the moon landing was fake."

Start with Case Closed by Gerald Posner.

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KING OF THE ROAD SAYS YOU MOVE TOO SLOW
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ttocsmi] [ In reply to ]
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ttocsmi wrote:
Don't believe everything you hear.

Conspiracy theories have been thoroughly debunked, repeatedly. When someone says, "Well, bullet casings on the roof of the Book Depository building PROVE LHO didn't shoot Kennedy" you can translate it as, "Well there's a new NASA picture that shows a reflection in a helmet visor that PROVES the moon landing was fake."

Start with Case Closed by Gerald Posner.

No doubt there is a case to be made it was just LHO and I tend to think that was the case. However, lots of loose ends that you have to ignore, even when explained away.

For example, the motorcade was going less than 5mph when standard ops is never go less then 10mph when driving in a parade with open vehicle.

I don't tend to think it will be ever be a "Case closed" situation.

I do agree with your premise that many conspiracy folks make a lot out of nothing.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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I'm not a conspiracy guy in general but have always had a problem with Oswald being capable of pulling this off.

While in the marines after intense training he barely qualified as sharpshooter (note: expert is the highest rating). He was later tested and barely made marksman (lower level). Supposedly when the guys he trained with were asked after the fact who they would pick to make an assassination attempt if they were the target, they all picked Oswald. There were three shots fired, the first shot missed the entire car. Anyone who has ever hunted knows the first shot is the most critical, you can't count on the target to remain in an undisturbed state. The next two shots were bullseyes. He had a poor weapon. There is no evidence that he practiced. He missed on an earlier assassination attempt (walker). When experts attempted to recreate his act I don't believe it was ever replicated and they were shooting at targets not a live President.

If Oswald did this it would be his equivalent of winning the lottery (twice).

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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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I watched "The Kennedy Detail" (I think that was the title) on Discovery channel and it centered on the USSS agents who were assigned to Kennedy. They addressed the open limo issue bit unfortunately I can't recall the details. I do recall seeing agents on foot around the limo at different times so it wouldn't be possible for the limo to be travelling at more that 10 mph at those times.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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There’s a couple good books out there that lay out the facts and debunk virtually every conspiracy theory claim around the JFK assasination. Case Closed by Posner is good, as is Parkland by Bugliosi. There was also an excellent documentary by ABC News many years ago that also showed that Oswald acted alone. Parkland in particular does an excellent job of detailing Oswald’s movements after killing Kennedy up to the time he was apprehended in the movie theater. There were in fact a number of witnesses who saw Oswald very close to Tippit.

Also, some witnesses ran to the grassy knoll, but many also looked up at the book depository building; there is a famous photograph that shows the Secret Service agents looking to their back and right after the first two shots, and not to their front.

There has been a ton of disinformation about the assasination, such as the so-called “magic bullet” which theory that has been touted by conspiracists for years, which I think has created doubt. But, it turns out that they didn’t know the interior layout of the presidential car, and when you see how it was in fact laid out, with Connally sitting lower and further inboard from the President, his wounds align perfectly with the wounds from the first shot that hit JFK.

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [mop] [ In reply to ]
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mop wrote:
I'm not a conspiracy guy in general but have always had a problem with Oswald being capable of pulling this off.

While in the marines after intense training he barely qualified as sharpshooter (note: expert is the highest rating). He was later tested and barely made marksman (lower level). Supposedly when the guys he trained with were asked after the fact who they would pick to make an assassination attempt if they were the target, they all picked Oswald. There were three shots fired, the first shot missed the entire car. Anyone who has ever hunted knows the first shot is the most critical, you can't count on the target to remain in an undisturbed state. The next two shots were bullseyes. He had a poor weapon. There is no evidence that he practiced. He missed on an earlier assassination attempt (walker). When experts attempted to recreate his act I don't believe it was ever replicated and they were shooting at targets not a live President.

If Oswald did this it would be his equivalent of winning the lottery (twice).

Not really. A lot of folks bring this up, but in fact, the angle from which Oswald was shooting, coupled with the proximity of the target, made his job much easier than many people realize. The FBI in fact did replicate the shooting from Oswald’s spot on the sixth floor and I don’t believe they concluded that it was all that difficult. There is also a documentary out there that shows just how much time Oswald had to get all of the shots off with his bolt action rifle, and in fact he had quite a bit of time.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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ACE wrote:
Visited Dealey Plaza in Dallas recently and talked to a few conspiracy guys about the assassination. I was always of the opinion it was LHO alone as conspiracies take a lot of work and just easier to assume it was a single disgruntled guy instead of a high level group plan with lots of moving parts. However the things I found interesting are the following:

1. LHO was in the lunch room at the book depository minutes after the shooting ( on the 2nd floor, not the 6th)
2. There were witnesses in the stairwells at the book depository that said they never saw LHO run down the stairs after the shooting,
3. The doctors at Parkland stated the bullets in JFK neck and back came from in front of him;
4. There were no eyewitnesses saying LHO ever shot officer Tippet,
5. They found spent shells on the roof of the book depository, ( someone else was up there shooting)
6. Witnesses at the scene ran to the grassy noll because they were sure that is where the shooting came from;
7. The parade route was changed a day before the parade.

These are just a few of the points the conspiracy folks use to support their case. I have always been a single shooter guy but now not so sure.

What do you think? I assumed most of the US thinks LHO acted alone but I was told polls of the US population show more people believe it was a conspiracy.

Just dawned on me that a couple of these points are contradictory. If there were spent shells on the roof of the book depository, then why were folks running to the grassy knoll? Seems like the folks you talked to want it both ways...there were shooters at the grassy knoll, and shooters close to LHO. Doesn’t make sense to me.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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Everyone knows Spock was the shooter.

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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ACE wrote:

1. LHO was in the lunch room at the book depository minutes after the shooting ( on the 2nd floor, not the 6th)
2. There were witnesses in the stairwells at the book depository that said they never saw LHO run down the stairs after the shooting,
3. The doctors at Parkland stated the bullets in JFK neck and back came from in front of him;
4. There were no eyewitnesses saying LHO ever shot officer Tippet,
5. They found spent shells on the roof of the book depository, ( someone else was up there shooting)
6. Witnesses at the scene ran to the grassy noll because they were sure that is where the shooting came from;
7. The parade route was changed a day before the parade.

Classic conspiracy methodology. Dig through the details of the story and try to find inconsistency and present them as evidence. You can do that with any somewhat complicated story regardless of the truth. Conspiracy theorists rarely present evidence of their alternative theory.

Who was the actual shooter and what evidence to support it?
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [ACE] [ In reply to ]
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The doctors in Dallas were trying to save his life, not perform an autopsy. The autopsy done in D.C.

“Read the transcript.”
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Re: JFK Conspiracy [sslothrop] [ In reply to ]
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Not to mention that trauma doctors aren’t exactly trained as ballistics experts and even that field is more advanced today than it would have been when the Kennedy investigation and reports were compiled.


sslothrop wrote:
The doctors in Dallas were trying to save his life, not perform an autopsy. The autopsy done in D.C.
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