Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees
Quote | Reply
And all the big-government-loving folks (y'all know who you are ;-) wonder why a hefty portion of the US population is out for blood when it comes to getting back at said government (else why would they have elected the Orange-Haired Wonder? LOL!).

Seems two cities in California's Inland Empire, Indio and Coachella, have come up with a particularly nasty and cruel way of enforcing various ordinances and codes. They partnered with a private law firm to prosecute citizens in criminal court for city ordinance violations that typically result in a small fine, such as having too-long grass in your front yard or selling food out of a truck without a license.

The way it works in towns and cities NOT in California is that you pay the fine, normally several hundred dollars at most, and fix the cited violation and you're done. End of story.

Not out in Indio and Coachella, though. Out there, you're liable to get a bill in the mail a few months later from the private law firm that prosecuted you, to the tune of thousands and thousands of dollars. In some cases bills ranged from $3,000 to $26,000 and cities are forcing their citizens to pay up.

Also, the law firm -- which was contracted by the two cities to act as their prosecutor, no doubt as a cost saving measure so that all their civil servants can keep their jobs -- threatens you with various bill-collecting measures, such as attaching a lien to your house. If the house is worth more than you owe, or you owe it free and clear, the firm will force a foreclosure auction and get what it says it's owed that way. Plus, if you appeal the bill or otherwise seek redress, the firm adds even more to the cost. Here are a couple of particularly egregious cases:

"In Coachella, a man was fined $900 for expanding his living room without getting a permit. He paid his fine. Then more than a year later he got a bill in the mail from Silver & Wright for $26,000. They told him that he had to pay the cost of prosecuting him, and if he didn’t, they could put a lien on his house and the city could sell it against his will. When he appealed the bill they charged him even more for the cost of defending against the appeal. The bill went from $26,000 to $31,000.

Brett Kelman of the Desert Sun found 18 cases in Indio and Coachella where people received inordinately high legal bills for small-time violations. A woman fined for hanging Halloween decorations across a city street received legal bill for $2,700. When she challenged it, the bill jumped to $4,200.

Kelman notes that these thousands of dollars in fees came from a single court hearing that lasted minutes."

If I recall correctly, taxes residents pay are supposed to cover costs such as arise from the civil and criminal courts system in their tax jurisdictions. So what gives here? SMH.

Tar, feathers, a rail. Some assembly required.


Coachella and Indio bill residents thousands for their own prosecution

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Send in a corruption unit and start arresting people. I mean unless Cali folks are down with this.
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [windywave] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
windywave wrote:
Send in a corruption unit and start arresting people. I mean unless Cali folks are down with this.

This is what Cali folks want. These Municipal leaders are voted in. Californians made their bed now they must sleep in them.

This is what more Gubmint looks like.


----------------------------------------------------------------

My training
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Prosecution for profit, what could possibly go wrong!
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm thinking it won't take long for the pitchforks to come out.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I’ve written about this before...

In LA county when I need to replace a piece of monitoring equipment at a gas station they require I obtain a permit.

This requirement includes replacing things such as liquid sensors and line leak detectors. In the case of the liquid sensor I have to cut two wires (intrinsically safe wiring so I don’t even have to kill power) and re-wire the new sensor. It takes a couple of minutes to do and the part cost $175.

The permit fee?

$1500. The permit application runs 12 pages.

Same with leak detector except that part is screw out the old and screw in the new. Like changing a lightbulb but with a wrench.

Permit fee?

$1800.

Pure. Fucking. Robbery.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Duffy wrote:
I’ve written about this before...

In LA county when I need to replace a piece of monitoring equipment at a gas station they require I obtain a permit.

This requirement includes replacing things such as liquid sensors and line leak detectors. In the case of the liquid sensor I have to cut two wires (intrinsically safe wiring so I don’t even have to kill power) and re-wire the new sensor. It takes a couple of minutes to do and the part cost $175.

The permit fee?

$1500. The permit application runs 12 pages.

Same with leak detector except that part is screw out the old and screw in the new. Like changing a lightbulb but with a wrench.

Permit fee?

$1800.

Pure. Fucking. Robbery.

Good Lord...

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [len] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
len wrote:
I'm thinking it won't take long for the pitchforks to come out.

I'll go get the tiki torches! ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [racin_rusty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
racin_rusty wrote:
Prosecution for profit, what could possibly go wrong!

Yah. What could go wrong? ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know that area quite well, used to live there. It is mostly made up of the 1%'ers with a good large mix of hispanics who work in the service industries there. Guessing a very high % are Republicans, almost everyone I knew was when I lived there (the 1%).

Just to give your story some context, as I think that most people when they think of those crazy Californians, are thinking of the Jerry Brown groups. There are still a couple areas where republicans still can vote in their representatives like Issa here where I live in Orange County, and other parts like the Antelope valley where Dan and I have our ranch, and La Quinta/Indio where a ton of well off retirees live..
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sure - but with the state legislature it really doesn't matter if a few Republicans are sprinkled in, just look at the bullshit that gets passed without a ballot. And just because there are 1%ers in that specific area doesn't mean ripping people off is sensible. I get your point that a republican local rep might be able to stop this action but I doubt it as it's a statewide issue. (Amongst a very long list of statewide issues) as noted in previous posts by Duffy not in the area noted in the OP.

But, as I never fail to mention, the weather is really nice.
Last edited by: JD21: Nov 18, 17 12:16
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It is not a bad as it sounds when I read the article. The lady with the 4200 bill had it tossed out when she challenged it. I would think those folks who challenge the excessive costs in court will get them substantially reduced. It looks like these cities are dealing with a problem that most cities have. People violate codes leave their properties a mess and then ignore the fines. So the city decided to outsource and speed up the process by hiring outside. Reading the article it seems all these people ended up in court because they didn't pay their fine and fix the problem promptly. The excessive fees relate more to over billing by the law firm. Which is a rampant problem in of itself in America.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Last edited by: len: Nov 18, 17 13:30
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [len] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
len wrote:
It is not a bad as it sounds when I read the article. The lady with the 4200 bill had it tossed out when she challenged it. I would think those folks who challenge the excessive costs in court will get them substantially reduced. It looks like these cities are dealing with a problem that most cities have. People violate codes leave their properties a mess and then ignore the fines. So the city decided to outsource and speed up the process by hiring outside. Reading the article it seems all these people ended up in court because they didn't pay their fine and fix the problem promptly. The excessive fees relate more to over billing by the law firm. Which is a rampant problem in of itself in America.

Citizens who've paid their fines according to the law shouldn't then have to then go back to court to fight off additional billing, spending even more money in the process to do so. It's unfair.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
I know that area quite well, used to live there. It is mostly made up of the 1%'ers with a good large mix of hispanics who work in the service industries there. Guessing a very high % are Republicans, almost everyone I knew was when I lived there (the 1%).

Just to give your story some context, as I think that most people when they think of those crazy Californians, are thinking of the Jerry Brown groups. There are still a couple areas where republicans still can vote in their representatives like Issa here where I live in Orange County, and other parts like the Antelope valley where Dan and I have our ranch, and La Quinta/Indio where a ton of well off retirees live..

Well, if there are that many high earners around there why would those two cities contract out their prosecutorial/criminal court enforcement responsibilities? It seems to me that with the kind of tax base they probably enjoy they could hire their city prosecutors. Besides all that, it will inevitably be that such prosecution fees would fall disproportionately on the people not in that famed 1% as well as those least able to afford it. It just looks bad on its face.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There isn't extra billing there is excessive billing. It looks like these towns have decided to off load the cost of bylaw enforcement onto the violators. The town should be specifying the rate at which the law firm can bill to enforce the laws. Given they are doing para-legal level law they should be paid para-legal rates. I would think that once the courts make judgements on the excessive bills in favor of the plaintiffs change will come. The question of who pays for bylaw inforcement is another issue. Personally I think the town should through taxes.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I wonder if the dude who put the illegal addition on his house paid the fine and was allowed to keep the addition, or had to go through the permit process and make the addition comply with building codes.

If the former, $900 is a slap on the wrist. Here, they won't fine you, but will shut your project down in a hurry and force you in to compliance (which can get really expensive).

Long Chile was a silly place.
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Coachella and Indio are definitely not 1% communities. Far from it.
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well its really a tale of two cities within one now. If you go south of the 10 fwy and just east of Jefferson from the La Quinta border, you will find a ton of 1+%'res neighborhoods. And they are some of the fastest growing in CA right now, just because there is room and a hot market. When I lived there about 5 years ago I was in one of those tracts, surrounded by others. Since then my inlaws moved out of one into another more ritzy one father east, I believe it goes out to Jackson now. And I think some of the most expensive property you can buy is in Indio too, some 10 million + houses near the fairgrounds. I remember when Trilogy was out there all by itself, now its just the southern most community of dozens, and it is 600K to million+ + houses being built every day out there. They may not all be 1%, but certainly 5 to 8%'res..

And then there is old Indio where in some places you have to speak Spanish. There is a great Mexican market there where I swear no English is spoken, but pointing and broken spanglish gets you the good stuff..
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AlanShearer wrote:
Coachella and Indio are definitely not 1% communities. Far from it.

When Monty says 1%ers he’s really just talking about Republicans, not an income bracket.

Apparently he’s never been to Montecito.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My wife used to run the fitness program at this motor home park as well as many of the communities in the area. I see some lots starting at $170k to $450k, just to park your motor home!! And of course they do not allow older ones, you basically have to have a 150k to million dollar plus motor home to be in this park. Pretty much all 1%'er here, and a lot more in the surrounding neighborhoods. Pretty much 400k to 800k just for regular track homes, and I have no idea why. It is the middle of the desert where it is over a 100 at least a 100 days a year, and you are next door to the poorest communities in the valley too.

I only got to live there because I caught the falling knife when home prices bottomed out in 2010. Made a killing keeping that house for just two years..



http://www.motorcoachlotsales.com
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Pretty much 400k to 800k just for regular track homes, and I have no idea why.

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/...nta-Barbara-CA-93105

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/...nta-Barbara-CA-93105

http://www.sothebyshomes.com/...nta-Barbara-CA-93105

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When I lived in Ca I always thought that they tried to fund the govt off of fines and fees. The fee for red light camera tickets is $490. In Texas it is $75
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No longer lawful:

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/billTextClient.xhtml?bill_id=201720180AB2495


Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [JD21] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JD21 wrote:
Sure - but with the state legislature it really doesn't matter if a few Republicans are sprinkled in, just look at the bullshit that gets passed without a ballot. And just because there are 1%ers in that specific area doesn't mean ripping people off is sensible. I get your point that a republican local rep might be able to stop this action but I doubt it as it's a statewide issue. (Amongst a very long list of statewide issues) as noted in previous posts by Duffy not in the area noted in the OP.

But, as I never fail to mention, the weather is really nice.

You got it completely backwards. These were local city policies adopted or authorized by local city government. Within months (if that) of this coming to the state legislature's attention, legislation was submitted to prohibit the municipalities and counties from doing this. It quickly passed and was just signed into law by Gov. Brown.
Quote Reply
Re: More Cali Craziness: Minor Code Violations Lead to Massive Prosecution Fees [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
big kahuna wrote:
monty wrote:
I know that area quite well, used to live there. It is mostly made up of the 1%'ers with a good large mix of hispanics who work in the service industries there. Guessing a very high % are Republicans, almost everyone I knew was when I lived there (the 1%).

Just to give your story some context, as I think that most people when they think of those crazy Californians, are thinking of the Jerry Brown groups. There are still a couple areas where republicans still can vote in their representatives like Issa here where I live in Orange County, and other parts like the Antelope valley where Dan and I have our ranch, and La Quinta/Indio where a ton of well off retirees live..


Well, if there are that many high earners around there why would those two cities contract out their prosecutorial/criminal court enforcement responsibilities? It seems to me that with the kind of tax base they probably enjoy they could hire their city prosecutors. Besides all that, it will inevitably be that such prosecution fees would fall disproportionately on the people not in that famed 1% as well as those least able to afford it. It just looks bad on its face.

Those two cities don't have many high earner residents. Some surrounding cities, like La Quinta, Indian Wells, Palm Desert, Rancho Mirage, and Palm Springs do. Indio and Coachella has a lot of farm workers, and people who work in those more affluent cities, often in their restaurants, golf courses, and homes.

That said, a large percentage of wealth residents doesn't always translate to what you might expect in municipal funding.
Quote Reply