Breath timing was the single biggest breakthrough I ever made.
I struggled with swimming but could keep up in the fast lane for any one arm drill etc.
I just couldn't put it together for a full stroke.
At the very first swim coaches course in Australia I asked the question to the late Joe King, who was one of the speakers then, as to what I may be doing wrong and he immediately said that I was probably late breathing, he was correct and from that day on my times tumbled.
The key was the rub marks on my shoulders from my stuble grazing them every stroke.

I agree completely. Not only is it super important, it is conspicuously absent from triathlon swimming discussions. Timing of the hands, feet, head, rotation, and breathing is all connected.

So what did you do to fix it? I work constantly on my stroke to little or no avail. I have been reading a lot lately about breathing late, but not really sure if I do it or not. Just read your comment about rub marks on your shoulder. I am often nearly rubbed raw on my shoulder on the side I breathe to after a swim, so if that is a sign I definitely do it. What kind of drills or cues did you use to change your timing?

Are you referring to a stubble burn on your breathing-side arm?

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DFL > DNF > DNS

Having your front end (chest) buoyant isn't that helpful the problem most triathletes have is legs are sinking. If you exhale fully chest sinks a bit and if you can get legs and pelvis up that is much more helpful.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I had to bump this because I remembered a video I wanted to post. Jack Conger breaking the HS national record taking double breaths into and out of most of the walls.


Video

Timing drill.
Swim with one arm with the other held by your side.
Breath on the non stroking arm.
You are working on roll/breath timing, nothing else so feel free to put some flippers on to make it easier to start with.

Big Cadence x Big Gear = Faster

The trap most guys fall into is trying to swim big gear but they go ultra low cadence so all they end up doing is swimmer slower and they get less oxygen. At least in biking if you ride low RPM at a big gear, you still have access to oxygen.

Question for you....my running and biking breathing is generally 45 times per minute when cruising (or lower), 60 at say half IM race pace, and 90 during intervals or at the end of a race. For swimming if I get up to 60 strokes per minute (around one per second 22 per length at 45 second per 50m), that's 30 right arm entries with breathing on my left. If I was breathing on every stroke that's 60. I just can't see how I get anywhere remotely close to the oxygen I can get while running or riding. No matter how hard I swim, I will be stuck lower than 60 and especially on SCM (vs LCM)

You are not suppose to get the same, it’s metered breathing. You just want to get as close as you can. That is why those extra breaths are so important

You really are smart when you're not trying to be snarky.

One arm swimming is probably one of the best timing drills and maybe one of the best overall drills. It is also tough and requires an effective kick, so fins are ok when getting started. Lyrrad describes it exactly as I would recommend... basically the hardest way to do it. Non puling arm at your side and breathing away from the side you are puling on. Done this way, the drill both demands and will (eventually) deliver impeccable timing of the hands, feet and breath. Head Lead and Finish Timing of the kick, as I have previously posted about, will help immensely with not drowning while doing one arm swimming.

I teach a version called "Four Stage Breathe Away" as described in the videos.

Like Monty said, the idea is to breathe as much as you can. No holding your breath in running and cycling, so try not to do it when you swim. 90 breaths per minute is ridiculous by the way. Most athletes will top out at 60 maybe 70 breaths per minute.

Figure a quick stroke rate of 1.25 seconds per cycle yields 48 breaths per minute (breathing every 2 strokes). If every 3rd-5th stroke cycle you double breathe, you now have a respiration rate very close to where most athletes breathe during V02 max type efforts.

So, I tried this 2-1-2 (or 2-2-1 or whatever you call it) pattern yesterday during my WU/CD. I didn't have too much issue with the pattern. It took about a length to adjust to the rhythm. I used to have a lot of difficulty swimming full stroke and breathing to my off-side---but, THAT seems to no longer be a problem. I've worked a lot on alignment in the last several months---maybe that fixed the awkwardness?

Anyway, the difficulty I DID have with this pattern was actually exhaling fast enough between the double breaths. It seems I've developed an exhale rate that is compatible with every other stroke....and I had a much harder time getting myself to alter the exhale rate (blow out hard) than I did getting the physical rhythm of rolling from side to side for the double breath. As it was, I was only taking a half(or less)-breath when switching sides.

Trying this pattern out didn't seem to affect my SPM, or SPL or pace. Granted it was a WU/CD, but looking back at the data its indistinguishable from other WU/CD on previous days. So, the awkwardness, loss of focus while concentrating on trying to breath funny didn't cause my stroke to fall apart.

You suggested this drill to me about 6 months ago, on the supposition that I was breathing late when I complained about getting water in my mouth. Of course, you were right. The drill definitely helped, as did your advice to "think" about leading with my head. Both things fixed that issue in a single session. I haven't gotten a mouthful of water since.

I'm a pretty diehard unilateral breather, so thank you for posting this thread.

It got me to try breathing on my weak side today and I focused on the timing of exhale underwater (something I do automatically on my preferred side). I was totally spent after 2000 yard workout with about 80 percent breathing on my weak side. I definitely learned some things, and I even chuckled when I started getting the stubble-burn on my right arm. That's not something that ever happens on the left for me.

Thanks!

Legs don't sink because they are heavy, that is the first misconception that needs to be put to rest so triathletes can learn to swim properly.
Push off the wall in a streamline, holding a big breath so your chest is as boyant as possible, your legs will not sink until you slow to an almost stop.
In fact they will float up to the water surface and you will find that your heels break the surface.

So enough of this my heavy legs sink bullshit.
You sink for other reasons, and the single most important thing you can learn is to control your body position.

Until you acknowledge this you will always swim like shite.

You really are smart when you're not trying to be snarky.

I only snark in response to a snark, just like the one above.
So maybe you should consider your own writing if you get a snark back.

A cursory perusal of your posting history indicates otherwise. But thanks for the bump!

http://www.swimsmooth.com/swimming-balance.html I guess you think those swim smooth guys no nothing about swimming. I never said legs sink because they are heavy. Holding breath underwater, pressing down on catch head too high all cause chest rise and legs go down. It feeds into body position.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot