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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
helo guy wrote:
So I've been shopping for both a new aero road bike (currently riding an '05 Litespeed) and a new tri bike as well (looking to replace my '08 P3C.)

I have a reasonable budget, but I tend to keep my bikes for a long time and I like to make a reasonably "future-proof" purchase. I have been very happy with my bikes, but there have been significant changes over the years. I suppose I don't NEED a new bike, but I do want one.

The problem is the technology has been changing so fast that I find it hard to make a good decision. With all the hype about disk brakes, if I get a non-disk bike I am concerned I will be stuck with equipment of a type a where companies are no longer putting in much development effort. The 650c sized tri bike we just got for my wife is a good example - quite limited choices in wheels and tires, with very few new options out there.

So I have been putting off making a major purchase for a while now, the exact opposite of what the bike companies would hope.

Anyone else feel this way?


Yup. A while back I was all set to buy a custom ti frame. Ultimately I nixed the plan because I didn't want to drop big bucks on a long lasting frame when the disk standards are in flux. What I did instead was buy an open mold carbon frame direct from China. 600 bones. I can upgrade every year or so for a long time and still pay out less than what the ti frame+fork would have cost. So the industry screwed themselves out of a sale. My thinking right now, as far as road bikes go, is that from now on I am hopping off the conveyor belt of paying the big boys huge premiums by buying direct from China. Too bad the open mold full suspension MTBs are not quite there yet.


Interesting, what process do you use to get your frames from China?

I have used the major distributors, like Hong Fu, that have a good rep on RBR. They all claim to be manufacturers but everything seems to be made by Fly Bike. Ordering is primitive: Send an email to hammer out order details and pay with PayPal. Funny thing is that shipping, which will cost you about $80, is incredible. I once ordered from Wiggle and the next day ordered from the next day. The frame showed up a seven days later, a couple days earlier than the Wiggle order, which is no slouch in the order speed department.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [Physiojoe925] [ In reply to ]
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Physiojoe925 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
helo guy wrote:
So I've been shopping for both a new aero road bike (currently riding an '05 Litespeed) and a new tri bike as well (looking to replace my '08 P3C.)

I have a reasonable budget, but I tend to keep my bikes for a long time and I like to make a reasonably "future-proof" purchase. I have been very happy with my bikes, but there have been significant changes over the years. I suppose I don't NEED a new bike, but I do want one.

The problem is the technology has been changing so fast that I find it hard to make a good decision. With all the hype about disk brakes, if I get a non-disk bike I am concerned I will be stuck with equipment of a type a where companies are no longer putting in much development effort. The 650c sized tri bike we just got for my wife is a good example - quite limited choices in wheels and tires, with very few new options out there.

So I have been putting off making a major purchase for a while now, the exact opposite of what the bike companies would hope.

Anyone else feel this way?


Yup. A while back I was all set to buy a custom ti frame. Ultimately I nixed the plan because I didn't want to drop big bucks on a long lasting frame when the disk standards are in flux. What I did instead was buy an open mold carbon frame direct from China. 600 bones. I can upgrade every year or so for a long time and still pay out less than what the ti frame+fork would have cost. So the industry screwed themselves out of a sale. My thinking right now, as far as road bikes go, is that from now on I am hopping off the conveyor belt of paying the big boys huge premiums by buying direct from China. Too bad the open mold full suspension MTBs are not quite there yet.


Interesting, what process do you use to get your frames from China?



And more importantly, who pays your medical bills if one of those frames breaks and causes you serious injury?

Big bike shop brands (Trek, Zipp, etc) have had recalls over the past few years/decade. If they can't produce a 100% safe product, I certainly wouldn't trust one without a name at all.

Oh, noes. I'm gonna die unless I pay thousands for something that costs hundreds to manufacture.

Funny how years of RBR open mold threads, which must have tens of thousands of posts by now, are not filled with horror stories of frame breakage. Heck, it might even be less chance since with no-name frames you are not trying to buy a frame 50 grams lighter than something else.

Currently if you need a carbon hard tail and you have any mechanical skills at all then you are wasting your money if you're not buying direct. People have been riding the shit out of those frames for years. Designing that stuff can be done by more than white dudes in California.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [helo guy] [ In reply to ]
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helo guy wrote:
So I've been shopping for both a new aero road bike (currently riding an '05 Litespeed) and a new tri bike as well (looking to replace my '08 P3C.)

I have a reasonable budget, but I tend to keep my bikes for a long time and I like to make a reasonably "future-proof" purchase. I have been very happy with my bikes, but there have been significant changes over the years. I suppose I don't NEED a new bike, but I do want one.

The problem is the technology has been changing so fast that I find it hard to make a good decision. With all the hype about disk brakes, if I get a non-disk bike I am concerned I will be stuck with equipment of a type a where companies are no longer putting in much development effort. The 650c sized tri bike we just got for my wife is a good example - quite limited choices in wheels and tires, with very few new options out there.

So I have been putting off making a major purchase for a while now, the exact opposite of what the bike companies would hope.

Anyone else feel this way?

Good question. I've been reading the responses for the past few days. I think you have to realize a few things.

1. Bike companies are in the business to MAKE money.
2. They will always want to push the envelope with better, faster, lighter aero, etc.
3. I feel like we've reached the peak or near pointy end of the "aero" performance wise. (Don't forget the marketing is the major part of this, yet our body, position, gear etc. can kill the aero quite quickly)
4. Since we have reached the pointy end of design, what are companies now doing? My answer...integrating places to put crap on the bike. Is it cool? Yes. Helpful? Yes. But that again is all to get your money. Same reason pockets are on your jersey.

In the end the overall time saved on 1 super Bike to a 8 to 10 yr Bike is not much different.
Look at the original cervelo p3 and specialized transition vs a trek speed concept or new p5.
You are only going to save a decent chunk for 112 miles, not much in a sprint or oly. And that is only if you stay in aero the whole time.

I have no desire to buy a disc Bike. My rim brakes have always worked well. Rim brake bikes will be around for a loong time. Keep reminding yourself that marketing is trying to get you to open your wallet, but you won't be much better off. My simple solution is to look for a design and fit you like and buy based on price and being content. New stuff always comes out. So what.

You could also take the approach of another responder, but the lightly used stuff you drool over in a few years after someone buys new and then gets tired of it and want the "newest" you.

I hope this didn't come off in a jerky way. I'm typing on my phone and just trying to be concise as possible.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [littlefoot] [ In reply to ]
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I have found the responses so far interesting. I actually support bike companies making money, that is after all how they develop all the gear in the first place.

I suppose my big problem is not even so much the rapid progress, but rather the lack of compatibility, either backwards compatibility or just in general.

The whole bottom bracket standard fiasco is a case in point, and a pet peeve of mine. I have put off a couple of major purchases because that would mean I could not use my power meter any more, a fairly expensive purchase.

I recently bought a cross bike. I got a great deal. It has Ultegra Di-2 and disk brakes. Unfortunately, I bought in the small time period where disk brakes with QR wheels where a thing, now it seems thru-axels are the standard. So the large majority of wheels out there are now not compatible. I almost bought a new pair last year, but they required adapters to work, and I ended up not bothering. Another purchase missed by the bike industry!

I have on older MTB hardtail frame that I have looked to upgrade on multiple occasions. It had an e-type front derailleur that stopped working. Anyone remember those? It mounted to a ring around the BB vice the seat tube. A technological dead end and I had no luck finding an upgrade. Also, it had integrated shift and brake levers. Well, guess what, no upgrades for you!

After a while 1x groups started to become popular and I thought that it was the perfect solution for an old 26 inch MTB frame that was not designed to have a front derailleur mounted on the seat tube. Oh wait, sram 1x setups require an XD driver hub in the wheel, and guess what, the wheels I had were not compatible. So now that frame is just sitting in the garage.

So the bike industry seems to expect me to completely ditch my old stuff and buy completely new gear. (Or at least newer, since that MTB was bought used anyhow.) But as it turns out, it has missed out on literally thousands of dollars. I expect at least SOME of my gear to be upgradable, but it is rarely the case.

Bottom line is that I am quite sure that I have spent LESS over the years that I would have otherwise.

I guess I should be grateful?

Oh well, more money for racing I suppose.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
Physiojoe925 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Arch Stanton wrote:
helo guy wrote:
So I've been shopping for both a new aero road bike (currently riding an '05 Litespeed) and a new tri bike as well (looking to replace my '08 P3C.)

I have a reasonable budget, but I tend to keep my bikes for a long time and I like to make a reasonably "future-proof" purchase. I have been very happy with my bikes, but there have been significant changes over the years. I suppose I don't NEED a new bike, but I do want one.

The problem is the technology has been changing so fast that I find it hard to make a good decision. With all the hype about disk brakes, if I get a non-disk bike I am concerned I will be stuck with equipment of a type a where companies are no longer putting in much development effort. The 650c sized tri bike we just got for my wife is a good example - quite limited choices in wheels and tires, with very few new options out there.

So I have been putting off making a major purchase for a while now, the exact opposite of what the bike companies would hope.

Anyone else feel this way?


Yup. A while back I was all set to buy a custom ti frame. Ultimately I nixed the plan because I didn't want to drop big bucks on a long lasting frame when the disk standards are in flux. What I did instead was buy an open mold carbon frame direct from China. 600 bones. I can upgrade every year or so for a long time and still pay out less than what the ti frame+fork would have cost. So the industry screwed themselves out of a sale. My thinking right now, as far as road bikes go, is that from now on I am hopping off the conveyor belt of paying the big boys huge premiums by buying direct from China. Too bad the open mold full suspension MTBs are not quite there yet.


Interesting, what process do you use to get your frames from China?



And more importantly, who pays your medical bills if one of those frames breaks and causes you serious injury?

Big bike shop brands (Trek, Zipp, etc) have had recalls over the past few years/decade. If they can't produce a 100% safe product, I certainly wouldn't trust one without a name at all.

I was with you until you implied all of these major companies only produce 100% safe products. Reading the stuff posted about felt, well, ....

I didn't imply that at all- quite the opposite if you read my post.

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [kiwi.] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. My personal experience. Any good lawyer will assist in getting compensation for the victim of a faulty product.

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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As someone who has experienced catastrophic failure and suffered injuries as a result (in addition to knowing others who have gone through similar). I will stick with the "insurance policy" of a name brand who will be liable when things go wrong.

-Physiojoe
Instagram: @thephysiojoe
Cycling coach, Elite racer on Wooster Bikewerks p/b Wootown Bagels
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [Arch Stanton] [ In reply to ]
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Arch Stanton wrote:

Oh, noes. I'm gonna die unless I pay thousands for something that costs hundreds to manufacture.

Funny how years of RBR open mold threads, which must have tens of thousands of posts by now, are not filled with horror stories of frame breakage. Heck, it might even be less chance since with no-name frames you are not trying to buy a frame 50 grams lighter than something else.

Currently if you need a carbon hard tail and you have any mechanical skills at all then you are wasting your money if you're not buying direct. People have been riding the shit out of those frames for years. Designing that stuff can be done by more than white dudes in California.

While there are good open mold frames available, there are also a lot bad (and REALLY bad) ones out there. I've been to China several times, toured several factories, and tested a lot of open mold frames. And while most have been structurally sound, many have design and/or manufacturing flaws that are, at times, simply jaw dropping. Some of the worst that I've seen have even come from factories that also manufacture for big names like Felt and Cannondale. While you don't have to be a "white dude in California" to design a good frame, it helps to really know bikes, which many of the designers over there don't. They know carbon fabrication, and many times copy what they're doing for other brands, but often don't really understand why something was specified the way it was, and their version of it misses the point...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:

I'm not going full luddite, but I'm not interested in triathlon to buy stuff I dont need - I'm here to train, get in great shape, and have fun racing. My gear isn't what's holding me back, so I'm making the most of it, and not falling into upgraditis. So far, so good.

It was amazing though to see in my last local tri that in my AG of 15 guys, I had the cheapest and oldest bike of anyone there, and I'm rocking a pretty nice 2008 P2c that still looks 'like-new'. And it was equally amazing to see that in this local AG, everyone was still meh-average speed!

Me too! Same bike even. I look at disc brakes, 27.5 wheel size, etc as 75% marketing hype and 25% useful. Still rocking 26” mountain bike.

Bike technology is not holding me back.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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lightheir wrote:

I'm not going full luddite, but I'm not interested in triathlon to buy stuff I dont need - I'm here to train, get in great shape, and have fun racing. My gear isn't what's holding me back, so I'm making the most of it, and not falling into upgraditis. So far, so good.

It was amazing though to see in my last local tri that in my AG of 15 guys, I had the cheapest and oldest bike of anyone there, and I'm rocking a pretty nice 2008 P2c that still looks 'like-new'. And it was equally amazing to see that in this local AG, everyone was still meh-average speed!

I'm on a 2012 Shiv that I still think is cool as hell. It looks great. I know it isn't as fast as some of the newer super bikes but it gets me 98% of the way there. I spent way too much on it in 2012. Not really interested in paying $5-10,000 for minimal upgrade.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [Felt_Rider] [ In reply to ]
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Felt_Rider wrote:
I just got a new IA16 because I was getting nervous for the reverse reason. I do hope rim brake wheels will remain as a choice in the future.
Similar choice for me. I just bought a Cannondale Synapse Carbon 105 so that I could get it with rim brakes. (And it was $500 less than the same bike with disc brakes.)

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: Have the rapid bike technology updates made you LESS likely to buy/upgrade? [lightheir] [ In reply to ]
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i guarantee i had the oldest bike out of 2400 at 70.3 worlds. you think anyone else besides me was riding a 2004 bike at that level of competition???

i was waiting for a disc brake bike and any getting the qr pr6 disc. i figure thst bike id's a future proof as i can get now and the bike will last me 10-15 years.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3
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