Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
6.9 mi run 60:40
850 yd swim

7 x 100 on 1:30
150 c/d

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:

gary p wrote:
200 pull, 200 kick warmup

8x25 butterfly drills

50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00
1st fail @ 13 (rest an interval)
2nd fail @ 18 (rest an interval)
set failed @ 23

250 EZ cool down

2000 SCY

That seems like an excessive amount of fly, to me anyway. Even if you are making pace times, I have no idea how you are doing it with decent form. I've always though that Form > Volume for fly, once the form breaks down its time for a break.

Did a modified version of this set tonight. Shortened the target time to :36.50 because that seemed to be the threshold of form failure. Failed to make the target time @ 10 and 14. After the second failure, I went to 25's. Did 12 on :35, and 12 on :40, all under :17.50. Ended up with both more volume AND better quality.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [140triguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
140triguy wrote:
I did the USRPT early in the practice. YARDS

4 x 150 WU as 125 swim, 25 kick

X x 75 @ 1:10, holding 1650y pace plus altitude fudge factor
1-16 ~ :47-:48high
Fail
1:10 break
17-22 ~ :47-48low

(Broken 1650 ~ 17:3x)

Goal was 22 x 75 holding :48-:49 since my best swim recently was in 2015, USMS Nationals 1650, 17:33 (1:03high pace)

200 CD as snorkel 25 kick-50 swim x 2 and 50 free
That's an awesome set. I'll give that a try soon.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zone-out day:

3x(6x100 buoy/band—>400 swim)

3000 scm

3.3 mile recovery run

_____________________________________
What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.

I do think kick is important, but more important is syncing up the recovering arm and the pulling arm. Then get the recovery moving and your pulling arm will stay with it...ideally.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.


google "backstroke spin drill - ryan lochte". that's how you develop speed. It's also hard as fuck.

shoulder roll drives the stroke in backstroke. turnover is critical.

it also helps to be built like Matt Grevers or Ryan Murphy...

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Last edited by: JasoninHalifax: Nov 28, 17 19:12
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JasoninHalifax wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
OK....general question to this thread....how the heck do you sprint in back stroke...I have two gears....super easy and medium cruise. What is the ticket to move really fast.... Kick harder and faster and let the legs drive the arm cadence or increase cadence by moving arms faster....no matter what I do I end up at the same speed which is not fast at all! We won't even get I into the predicament of doing fast breast stroke. That is a lost cause for me.


google "backstroke spin drill - ryan lochte". that's how you develop speed. It's also hard as fuck.

shoulder roll drives the stroke in backstroke. turnover is critical.

it also helps to be built like Matt Grevers or Ryan Murphy...

That looks like a good way for me to get my own lane in the mornings!
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Trexlera] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I need to get up earlier. 10k run w/ 2 x 2 mi (16:19, 16:00) then 550 yd swim.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Warmup :
200ez
2x50 kick
2x(2x50 simglearm /swim)

Ms:
20x100 usrpt @1:39
Failed at #19 --- I was really bummed to see the 1:41 at this point! Ugh. Tried to hold on to the stroke for all I was worth.

Cd: 200ez

2700scy


November goal was do the full usrpt set @1:40. Hope to do all 20 on Friday (December 1st) @1:39. I will call that a win.

ETA: This set really kicked my ass. I pushed pretty hard in the last 8x100s to hold the pace, without letting the stroke fall apart. Then, the wife asked me to pickup dinner on the way home, and I found myself wandering aimlessly around the grocery store in zombie mode---AFTER I already had the baked chicken and green beans in the basket. I don't really even know what I was looking for.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 30, 17 10:04
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Tom_hampton] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
9 mi run 81:43, the 3 mi splits 27:10, 27:14, 27:19. Those are in the wrong direction but at least are consistent!
875 yd swim

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Painful masters set - scm
400 fins (50 sw/50 kk)
8X50 dr on 1.10 (2 scull, 2 bk catch up, 2 scull, 2 bk catch up)
8X25 swim steady on 40
8X50 on 1 - odds dps, evens hold sc and desc 1-4
400 - 75 fr/25 IM order (5:20)
8X50 on 50 (25 pause arm/25 sw)
Main set
4X(8x25 fins max effort/ 200 p easy/ 50 fast desc 1-4, 100 ez) 25s on 20/25/30/35 by round
50s
The 25s were brutal
Got down to a 30.0 push 50 at end

Dc
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
50's fly on 1:10, target < :37.00 //

I really like this set you have on your schedule now, and plenty of ways for people to adjust the times and swims to suit them. I would love to do it as you did, but since I have done no fly in ages beyond the occasional 25, and every time I get any traction one of my 3 kids gets me sick and it takes over a week to get back in the water, I adjusted it just a tiny bit to start with. Hope to push out the number of repeats and eventually do it all fly too, and get close to your interval times too!!

4x100swim@1;40(1;26/25's)
2x150IM kick@3;10( 2;56/54)
4x150p@2;20 (2;01's)
150IM kick(2;53)
4x50@1;10 25fly/25free (39/38/38/37) could do more, but not quite ready to do sets to failure right yet

1650SCY
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
200 pull, 200 kick
4x50 build

100's on 1:35, target < 1:13.00
(made 20 consecutive, had to quit for time)

200 EZ cool down.

2800 SCY



For comparison's sake, I did this set on November 1 with a target time of 1:16 and failed at 13,18, and 20. It was a good month in the pool for me. 23 sessions, 25.5 hours, 56,350 yards.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Last edited by: gary p: Nov 30, 17 15:49
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Zenmaster28] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Warm up
300 kicking with and without fins
200 backstroke to open up the shoulders.
800-1000 paddle work (more on the days without backstroke)

Dr Jay
http://www.Tri-Pod.net
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For comparison's sake, I did this set on November 1 with a target time of 1:16 and failed at 13,18, and 20. It was a good month in the pool for me. 23 sessions, 25.5 hours, 56,350 yards. //

Thats great, who would have thunk that swimming more makes you faster!! A really quality set, if I ever get 3 a week of 3k for at least 2 weeks I might try it pulling. Those intervals and times would be a real challenge set for me once I get a tiny bit of actual fitness in the water..
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:

Thats great, who would have thunk that swimming more makes you faster!! A really quality set, if I ever get 3 a week of 3k for at least 2 weeks I might try it pulling. Those intervals and times would be a real challenge set for me once I get a tiny bit of actual fitness in the water..

The combination of volume and intensity had a lot to do with it, but I also attended a USMS Stroke Clinic early in the month. When I was having trouble implementing the suggested changes, I switched my breathing side. Since there wasn't nearly as much muscle memory breathing in that direction, I found it easier to make changes. That got me from 1:13.highs to 1:12.lows on that 100's set in just a week.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Monday,
400wu, 100,200,300,400,500,600,700,800,400cd with 30sec +/- between sets for 4400 yd total
Check out my swim on Strava.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1293066032
https://www.movescount.com/moves/move188193911

Thursday
400wu, 100,200,300,400 repeat 4 times and 200cd with 30sec +/- between sets for 4600 yds
Check out my swim on Strava.
https://www.strava.com/activities/1297059077
https://www.movescount.com/moves/move188600513

All nice and easy at a sub 1:40 pace trying to keep HR sub 120
Last edited by: Testament TN: Nov 30, 17 17:16
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WU: 200ez

MS:
8x50(:20) singlearm
5x100 (:30) odds paddles / evens swim
8x50(30) odds swim / evens swim
5x100(:30) swim

CD: 200ez

2200 scy

All intervals at comfortable pace (1:42 ish) focusing on EVF, finishing evey pull, and keepng kick tight.

November Summary:

15 swims, 27,000 yards.
USRPT pace started at 1:43 failing at #9, #13, #18. As noted yesterday pace: 1:39, failed at #19. So, 4 second improvement, and I'm about to upgrade to 1:35 pace.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 30, 17 18:38
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
For comparison's sake, I did this set on November 1 with a target time of 1:16 and failed at 13,18, and 20. It was a good month in the pool for me. 23 sessions, 25.5 hours, 56,350 yards. //

Thats great, who would have thunk that swimming more makes you faster!! A really quality set, if I ever get 3 a week of 3k for at least 2 weeks I might try it pulling. Those intervals and times would be a real challenge set for me once I get a tiny bit of actual fitness in the water..

Hey Monty...how fast do most triathlete swimmers sprint 25M kick only.....I tried it the other day and could only get down to 28 seconds! I don't think I am "that bad", but I suppose there is a long way to go. By the way, that's around how long it took me to dolphin kick one length underwater. I think I should work on improving both! Another challenge for 2018. This year the challenge was to get better at all strokes and even though my back and breast are kind of sucking, most real swimmers think I must be a real swimmer, so they suck less than a floundering triathlete, so that is an achievement for the year.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Monty...how fast do most triathlete swimmers sprint 25M kick only.....I tried it the other day and could only get down to 28 seconds//

Well since most triathlete swimmers didn't come from swim backgrounds, not too fast. I could probably do a low to mid 20 second 25m right now, a bit faster if I actually worked on speed. But take dan for instance, pretty good 60+ triathlete swimmer but could not break 55 seconds for that kick(I honestly don't know why he is so slow, just looks like he kicks most the water straight down). We did a short set last week where he wanted to do 8x200 swims on the 3;05. I didn't feel great so I said I would do every other one swim and then 150 kick on the evens, he was surprised I didn't opt for a 100 kick on that interval. He never caught me on my kick ones, but of course they were harder for me than the swims I was just cruising at 2;50. Did the kicks pretty much the same times.


So you are getting at the pointy end of AG triathletes, but of course would be lapped by Phelps by quite a bit!!
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Haven't tried to sprint kick, but I regularly do 2x50scy kick in warmup @1:12 - 1:15 each, so 40ish for 25m. Maybe I'll try a 25y sprint this weekend for fun.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Nov 30, 17 21:37
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
29s for 25y from a push with a board. So 31-32ish for 25m?

ETA: I can imagine that I could eek out maybe another second or so with an absolute, all-out, rooster-tail type effort, because I was not all gasping for air at the end. But, it was a solid "fast" attempt, and I repeated the result after :20 rest.
Last edited by: Tom_hampton: Dec 1, 17 5:30
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I went 21.00 for a 25y kick sprint today. With shorty TYR Burner fins, I was able to do a 15.88.

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [gary p] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gary p wrote:
I went 21.00 for a 25y kick sprint today. With shorty TYR Burner fins, I was able to do a 15.88.

OK OK....circling back to my underwater dolphining. I am definitely not doing anything dangerous. Today's swim main set was 8x100m, First 25m under water dolphin sprint, second 25m after first 8 min cruise, pick up the speed, next 25m build into a full out fly sprint, then 25m easy kick on my back.....10-20 breaths for recovery, and then repeat. I did 5 with fins and 3 without fins. The ones with fins of course are easier as my underwater dolphin across the pool with shorty fins is 20 seconds or a bit under and without fins depending on how hard I was going it was closer to 30. In any case, it was a fun set. Lots of rest in between the under water dolphin. No short rest.

It's cool that with all of this kick and dolphin I am getting a pretty solid six pack for a 52 year old over trainer! Also noticed in the weight room, I developed some decent quad strength. My leg extensions are up to 20-30 reps with just around 100% body weight (for me 135 lbs to 145 lbs depending on which machine at which gym....I weigh a touch over 140 lbs)

In terms of 25m sprint with kick board, I did not try it today. I have not tried the full rooster tail sprint either. Honestly I don't think I would get down lower than 25 seconds, but I suppose the only way to find out is work on it. I am certain that if I get back to triathlon with all this lower body and core work in the water, I will be a front of pack in my age group on the bike. My legs are well conditioned to the burn you get working the legs hard in the water....no wonder all those swim studs become such strong riders too.
Quote Reply
Re: November Swim Thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
monty wrote:
Hey Monty...how fast do most triathlete swimmers sprint 25M kick only.....I tried it the other day and could only get down to 28 seconds//

Well since most triathlete swimmers didn't come from swim backgrounds, not too fast. I could probably do a low to mid 20 second 25m right now, a bit faster if I actually worked on speed. But take dan for instance, pretty good 60+ triathlete swimmer but could not break 55 seconds for that kick(I honestly don't know why he is so slow, just looks like he kicks most the water straight down). We did a short set last week where he wanted to do 8x200 swims on the 3;05. I didn't feel great so I said I would do every other one swim and then 150 kick on the evens, he was surprised I didn't opt for a 100 kick on that interval. He never caught me on my kick ones, but of course they were harder for me than the swims I was just cruising at 2;50. Did the kicks pretty much the same times.


So you are getting at the pointy end of AG triathletes, but of course would be lapped by Phelps by quite a bit!!

LOL....you beating up on slowman's kick actually improved mine today. As I have leg control issues with my left, leg and applying force like a normal human I noticed during some kick sets that I was kicking the water down with my left shin, whereas wiht the right I was kind of flicking it backwards. So I focused on that, and got my 25M down to 26 seconds today. I THINK if I keep working on this, I can get down to 22 by improving not just the propulsion, but the timing and streamline....it's almost like you want to "catch" the water using the shin as the paddle and throw the water back with the shin and then foot but finish with a streamline (like we would do with fins) vs just slapping turbulent water....thinking like using each leg as a dolphin's body 180 degrees out of phase with the other dolphin body (leg) and using the foot as a tail fin.....am I on the right track?
Quote Reply

Prev Next