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Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW?
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appears that way?.

Also anyone know his Power?

Any decent bike reviews of his setup?
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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Dunno many age groupers who can run a 2:40 marathon off the bike?! He came 3rd last year so had all the makings of having what it takes. What was age group like about his performance?
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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8:01 definitely screams age grouper
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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IIRC he did win 30-34AG, right?

I'd brag about that.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [USCoregonian] [ In reply to ]
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USCoregonian wrote:
8:01 definitely screams age grouper

That's what I was thinking, probably qualified through the lottery or something..
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely not. I read an analysis of kona bike splits with respect to run splits and the conclusion was that almost every age grouper overbiked. Lange did not. Plus his decision to let the front pack bike away must have been scary, even though he knew it was the right thing to do. I suspect most age groupers would have tried to stay in contact.

He does a lot of testing, I've seen it multiple times on his social media. No matter what the slowtwitch eyeball wind tunnel says, I suspect his position is nearly perfect. Although I must say it is quite visually pleasing as well, so it passes the eyeball test too.

What makes you say he raced like an age grouper?
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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I think he did in that he focused on his race and his numbers, and let the result work itself out. Most AGers would have set out with that intention race morning, however most would have let their emotions / ego get the better of them and executed poorly.

Keinle and Sanders were open in their tactics that they needed bridge the gap to the lead pack to be with any chance of winning, they were racing.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [uk_bloke] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like people are saying that LS/SK et al 'raced' and Lange 'executed'. That about right?

29 years and counting
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely, breaking the course record and running the last three miles at sub 6 minute mile pace have ran from mid pack to the front of the field is text book age grouper tactics.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [The_Exile] [ In reply to ]
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I think you're missing the point.. AGers make a plan to ride XXXNP / XXXHR then run X:XXm/miles based on what they know they're capable of, they don't make a plans to bridge to groups, attack on descents, hills etc.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [uk_bloke] [ In reply to ]
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He raced it with the intention of completing his fastest swim/bike/run race. Which meant sticking to performance targets in each discipline that he knew gave him his best chance of completing his fastest swim/bike/run performance.

I think the pro-men are at a tipping point in the 'time trial' approach versus the 'tactical' approach. If you are balanced across all three disciplines, than the time trial strategy is likely the best. If not, you have to exploit your strengths and 'force' the guys to break from the time trial strategy to maintain a gap they think they can close later in the race.

As for the AG race strategy...I was getting passed all the way up the queen k...and passing them back all the way back home with many of them who looked like time trial machines heading to Hawi sitting up on the bars and coasting into the wind. So, no, Lange did not race like an AG'er! :)
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [Jorgan] [ In reply to ]
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Jorgan wrote:
Sounds like people are saying that LS/SK et al 'raced' and Lange 'executed'. That about right?

That's what they thought they had to do to beat Frodeno and IMO potentially forced him to over bike and broke him. They executed what they thought they would have to do to win and in reality it was their only hope. Watch the post race interview and Sebi said sometimes you have to go beyond what you know are your limits if you want to win. When you know you can run 2'40" and weigh 63kg I guess you execute to your strengths and luckily enough that is the last leg but if you're in the 70kg range and run closer to 2'50" you have to race the bike and hope a bit more on the run. I would say the first four all executed a perfect race for what they had on the day. Read the blog on Cam Wurf and him saying how Sebi controlled the group to catch the front pack and once again once they had gapped Frodeno.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [Darren325] [ In reply to ]
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It's hard to make a judgement without knowing exactly what information Lange had at his disposal on the bike. If he did know the splits on the bike course then it could be a bit unfair to assume he was just naively time-trialling his own race and letting everyone else do what they want.

Given Lange's run pedigree he would have to have been confident of closing down a reasonable gap on the run; sure 10+ mins is a big gap, but maybe if that had gone out more quickly and threatened to balloon to 15-20 mins then we would have seen him react and overtly race that lead group. However that doesn't mean he wasn't already racing the others with this in mind.

Let's be honest, this is the dynamic in almost every single pro-cycling race; the peloton let the breakaway go, but keep them on a tight enough leash that they're confident of reeling them in by the finish. It seems like the oppressive conditions in Kona would be a good candidate for a somewhat more-conservative tactic like this.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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I think it will be interesting the dynamic that plays out next year depending on who shows up. Having Javy in the mix could force Lange to roll the dice more on the bike. Or possibly a Talansky / Starky in the mix could make the pain train much more painful. I also think the bikers in '18 will have Lange and McNamee pegged (like they did Jan this year) and will try and isolate them even more. It's a game of chance between how much time can you put on them in the bike and how much you lose personally on your run. It was 15 plus minutes this year and I think they could be looking for something more like 20 or better in '18.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
Definitely not. I read an analysis of kona bike splits with respect to run splits and the conclusion was that almost every age grouper overbiked. Lange did not. Plus his decision to let the front pack bike away must have been scary, even though he knew it was the right thing to do. I suspect most age groupers would have tried to stay in contact.

He does a lot of testing, I've seen it multiple times on his social media. No matter what the slowtwitch eyeball wind tunnel says, I suspect his position is nearly perfect. Although I must say it is quite visually pleasing as well, so it passes the eyeball test too.

What makes you say he raced like an age grouper?

help me out here...why is it a bad thing if a pack bikes away. You can't draft in this race so there are no benefits to staying in a pack watt savings wise. Everyone is essentially riding solo. Am I missing something on why keeping with a lead "pack" is so important?
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ou8acracker2] [ In reply to ]
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ou8acracker2 wrote:
imswimmer328 wrote:
Definitely not. I read an analysis of kona bike splits with respect to run splits and the conclusion was that almost every age grouper overbiked. Lange did not. Plus his decision to let the front pack bike away must have been scary, even though he knew it was the right thing to do. I suspect most age groupers would have tried to stay in contact.

He does a lot of testing, I've seen it multiple times on his social media. No matter what the slowtwitch eyeball wind tunnel says, I suspect his position is nearly perfect. Although I must say it is quite visually pleasing as well, so it passes the eyeball test too.

What makes you say he raced like an age grouper?


help me out here...why is it a bad thing if a pack bikes away. You can't draft in this race so there are no benefits to staying in a pack watt savings wise. Everyone is essentially riding solo. Am I missing something on why keeping with a lead "pack" is so important?

LOL
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ou8acracker2] [ In reply to ]
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ou8acracker2 wrote:
imswimmer328 wrote:
Definitely not. I read an analysis of kona bike splits with respect to run splits and the conclusion was that almost every age grouper overbiked. Lange did not. Plus his decision to let the front pack bike away must have been scary, even though he knew it was the right thing to do. I suspect most age groupers would have tried to stay in contact.

He does a lot of testing, I've seen it multiple times on his social media. No matter what the slowtwitch eyeball wind tunnel says, I suspect his position is nearly perfect. Although I must say it is quite visually pleasing as well, so it passes the eyeball test too.

What makes you say he raced like an age grouper?


help me out here...why is it a bad thing if a pack bikes away. You can't draft in this race so there are no benefits to staying in a pack watt savings wise. Everyone is essentially riding solo. Am I missing something on why keeping with a lead "pack" is so important?

At the legal distance, there is still a draft benefit. Also, the mental aspect of knowing you can still see the leaders even if you are at the back of the pack.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
He does a lot of testing, I've seen it multiple times on his social media. No matter what the slowtwitch eyeball wind tunnel says, I suspect his position is nearly perfect. Although I must say it is quite visually pleasing as well, so it passes the eyeball test too.
Being sponsored by SwissSide, that's a given.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ou8acracker2] [ In reply to ]
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Well, two things. First of all, there is still a wattage saving as 12m, so legal drafting is absolutely a thing.

Furthermore, on a more basic level it's a race, and being in a race and watching your competitors riding away knowing what they're capable of on both the bike and run at their best is a very scary proposition.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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I would argue he did exactly the opposite of most age groupers. Rode within himself (did not overbike) and understood the run is where he would win the race if he had the chance.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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 I see age groupers with bananas in their tri suits all the time.....


Seriously... This was the exact opposite of an age grouper performance.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [ErickBar] [ In reply to ]
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ErickBar wrote:
appears that way?.

I'm not sure I agree with the assumptions in a lot of the other posts on this thread.

In a German interview he said the first half of the bike contained a lot of surging 150W - 350W. So he definitely wasn't 'sticking to his pace'.

Back half of the bike he had to drop off for fear of blowing up, and he didn't feel good at the start of the run.

IMHO he raced the race.

What sets him apart (speed assumed) is he runs -ve or even splits.
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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As someone who's a so so swimmer, a decent cyclist and a good runner, I have no choice but execute this strategy - try to come out of the water no too far behind, keep within my power number on the bike and try to run the competition down knowing that I am probably a better runner but never being quite sure that it will be enough. Basically this strategy usually gets me in the mix for the AG podium, but it takes some mental fortitude to know that you have to cover a 4 min gap in an oly, a 10 min gap in a 70.3, etc.....

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [coates_hbk] [ In reply to ]
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2:43 off the bike back in 2011 for Joe Thorne.....Not sure if that is the amateur run record in Kona, if there is such a thing, but think it would be damn close.

Maybe the OP is referring to how Lange raced really smart, didn't put his nose in the wind much or at all, on the bike (from what I recall) and then executed his strength which is the run? Not sure what the OP was trying to point out.

-Brad Williams
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Re: Did Patrick Lange race like an Age Grouper FTW? [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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didn't put his nose in the wind much or at all, //

Really?? Have you been to Kona, had a look at the conditions this year? What I saw was 90% of the ride was either tailwind, cross, or head crosswind, all of which negate any watt savings at 12. meters. And since he dropped off pretty early, good bet he rode some all by himself too. Rather than say he didn't have his nose to the wind, I would say he almost always had his nose in the wind this day.


Not saying this about you in particular, but it irks me when people talk about Kona pack riding like it is some free ride, or even in the same breath as they would a TDF breakaway. I think if a few more people actually rode at that pace at 12+ meters in a crosswind that is typical on the island, they would not be so flippant about comments about so and so just took some free ride. Nothing is free about that ride..
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