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Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run
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In all of my ironman races there have been a significant decrease in heart rate and power in the last 70k of bike and last half of IM marathon.

Posting these if anyone can help on what could be the cause and tips to address it.

In a race I only pace the bike by HR, using power as upper limit only. The plan is to maintain 135-140 HR which for me is Zone 2 (relatively easy pace), but then at the last 70k of the bike HR goes down to 120-125, bringing down power as well by 30W.
And then in last half of marathon I again cannot raise my HR above 130.

Preparation wise I do several 5hr rides almost once a week, and high intensity workouts.

In regards to calories I consume in the bike around 1 efs liquid shot/hr (400kcal/hr).

Have a high sweat rate so I normally drink 1 water bottle every 20min and in hot races I don't pee in the whole ride or maybe only once.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
The plan is to maintain 135-140 HR which for me is Zone 2 (relatively easy pace), but then at the last 70k of the bike HR goes down to 120-125, bringing down power as well by 30W.

In the last 70k of the bike are you working just as hard as you are able to or backing off because it "feels harder" than you want it to? PE will increase as duration increases in an evenly paced bike or run so it ought to feel harder at the end than beginning of either.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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I've a heavy sweat rate, so what I pay attention on the tail end of rides and runs where power or pace drop off:
  • Solar radiation exposure: I've found that the more sun I get on my arms, the more likely I'll lose power output at the tail end of rides. Sun cooler sleeves help with this.
  • Dehydration / salt loses: Power will drop off if I don't maintain adequate fluid intake, especially with something like Gatorade (or something similar) more so at the tail end of rides. Water top ups are important, but the best rides all seem to end with almost all Gatorade on the back halfs of rides. 2 bottles/hour minimum.

Edit: Agree with the previous poster: perceived exertion goes up to maintain power/hr constant.
Last edited by: fishgo: Oct 20, 17 7:38
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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So you became tired.

Endurance coach | Physiotherapist (primary care) | Bikefitter | Swede
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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your muscles require water and electrolytes to fire, not just calories. Think about that equation.

As another poster said, "you became tired" or in other words exceeded your endurance.

Keep training

pabloarc wrote:
In all of my ironman races there have been a significant decrease in heart rate and power in the last 70k of bike and last half of IM marathon.

Posting these if anyone can help on what could be the cause and tips to address it.

In a race I only pace the bike by HR, using power as upper limit only. The plan is to maintain 135-140 HR which for me is Zone 2 (relatively easy pace), but then at the last 70k of the bike HR goes down to 120-125, bringing down power as well by 30W.
And then in last half of marathon I again cannot raise my HR above 130.

Preparation wise I do several 5hr rides almost once a week, and high intensity workouts.

In regards to calories I consume in the bike around 1 efs liquid shot/hr (400kcal/hr).

Have a high sweat rate so I normally drink 1 water bottle every 20min and in hot races I don't pee in the whole ride or maybe only once.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [mortysct] [ In reply to ]
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mortysct wrote:
So you became tired.

WHS
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
In all of my ironman races there have been a significant decrease in heart rate and power in the last 70k of bike and last half of IM marathon.

Posting these if anyone can help on what could be the cause and tips to address it.

In a race I only pace the bike by HR, using power as upper limit only. The plan is to maintain 135-140 HR which for me is Zone 2 (relatively easy pace), but then at the last 70k of the bike HR goes down to 120-125, bringing down power as well by 30W.
And then in last half of marathon I again cannot raise my HR above 130.

Preparation wise I do several 5hr rides almost once a week, and high intensity workouts.

In regards to calories I consume in the bike around 1 efs liquid shot/hr (400kcal/hr).

Have a high sweat rate so I normally drink 1 water bottle every 20min and in hot races I don't pee in the whole ride or maybe only once.

I'd call it cardiac drift.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [xsive] [ In reply to ]
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Wouldn't cardiac drift be higher HR at same power? Or less power at same HR? In this case I think both HR and power drop at same rate at end of the ride.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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For me it's not like it feels harder in those last 70k. I just feel a lack of energy to push hard.
So not able to work as hard as I could. 120-125 BPM HR in the last part of bike is just too low.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [fishgo] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. For hydration I tried to focus on water only, as having gatorade with efs liquid shot would not be very good for my stomach.
But agree, too much water only could be cause for the lack of energy.

In regards to solar radiation topic, this issue happens to me also in mild conditions. I have the same feelings at end of ride in IM Texas where conditions where mild this year comparred to Kona where conditions where lot hotter.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
For me it's not like it feels harder in those last 70k. I just feel a lack of energy to push hard.

Hmmmm I guess for me that would pretty much be the definition of feeling harder. As others have said it would seem to be a fitness issue.

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
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Wouldn't the electrolytes be supplied in this case with the EFS Liquid Shot I'm taking 1 flask/hr?
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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Do you think a better approach for me would be slower pacing in those initial 100k of the bike. Plan a lower HR for those?
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
Do you think a better approach for me would be slower pacing in those initial 100k of the bike. Plan a lower HR for those?

The drop off in your sustainable power would indicate you're fitness wasn't sufficient to carry your planned power the whole distance so yes your target seemed too aggressive for you fitness on the day.

YMMV,

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
Wouldn't the electrolytes be supplied in this case with the EFS Liquid Shot I'm taking 1 flask/hr?

I used EFS and agree it has a lot of electrolytes but I'll still supplement with Gatorade and salt tabs, especially more so towards the end. My N=1 only but my best races occur when I grow sick of EFS about 4 hours in and switch over to all liquids off the course.
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [pabloarc] [ In reply to ]
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pabloarc wrote:
Wouldn't the electrolytes be supplied in this case with the EFS Liquid Shot I'm taking 1 flask/hr?

In your case and your fitness, no

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
pabloarc wrote:
Do you think a better approach for me would be slower pacing in those initial 100k of the bike. Plan a lower HR for those?

The drop off in your sustainable power would indicate you're fitness wasn't sufficient to carry your planned power the whole distance so yes your target seemed too aggressive for you fitness on the day.

YMMV,

Hugh

If this is the case i.e. It's simply fitness, what is the way to go about addressing it. More long rides or a higher FTP.... in other words will riding at a lower IF prevent this? I've seen a similar drop off recently. My 1st 80 miles was ridden at an IF of 0.75 (i.e. Pretty good IMO) but I could only manage 0.60 in the last 32.... so any strategies to prevent this would be gratefully received....
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]
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Stimps9 wrote:
sciguy wrote:
pabloarc wrote:
Do you think a better approach for me would be slower pacing in those initial 100k of the bike. Plan a lower HR for those?

The drop off in your sustainable power would indicate you're fitness wasn't sufficient to carry your planned power the whole distance so yes your target seemed too aggressive for you fitness on the day.

YMMV,

Hugh

If this is the case i.e. It's simply fitness, what is the way to go about addressing it. More long rides or a higher FTP.... in other words will riding at a lower IF prevent this? I've seen a similar drop off recently. My 1st 80 miles was ridden at an IF of 0.75 (i.e. Pretty good IMO) but I could only manage 0.60 in the last 32.... so any strategies to prevent this would be gratefully received....

1. An IF of .75 is probably too high of an intensity target unless you likely bike finish time is 5 hours or less.

2. If you could only average an IF of .6 for the last 32 miles the .75 target was too lofty.

3. I feel that weekly or semi-weekly rides of 3 to 4 hour rides with an IF of .80 or more are really potent stimuli for improving your 5+ hour power.

Hope that helps

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
Last edited by: sciguy: Oct 20, 17 15:40
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Re: Significant Decrease in HR and power at last part of IM bike and last part of IM run [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
Stimps9 wrote:
sciguy wrote:
pabloarc wrote:
Do you think a better approach for me would be slower pacing in those initial 100k of the bike. Plan a lower HR for those?

The drop off in your sustainable power would indicate you're fitness wasn't sufficient to carry your planned power the whole distance so yes your target seemed too aggressive for you fitness on the day.

YMMV,

Hugh

If this is the case i.e. It's simply fitness, what is the way to go about addressing it. More long rides or a higher FTP.... in other words will riding at a lower IF prevent this? I've seen a similar drop off recently. My 1st 80 miles was ridden at an IF of 0.75 (i.e. Pretty good IMO) but I could only manage 0.60 in the last 32.... so any strategies to prevent this would be gratefully received....

1. An IF of .75 is probably too high of an intensity target unless you likely bike finish time is 5 hours or less.

2. If you could only average an IF of .6 for the last 32 miles the .75 target was too lofty.

3. I feel that weekly or semi-weekly rides of 3 to 4 hour rides with an IF of .80 or more are really potent stimuli for improving your 5+ hour power.

Hope that helps

Hugh

Thanks, that seems to make sense. I did manage a 5:02 which was close to my 5:00 target but I suffered big time on the run. As the OP mentioned heat and sun makes the dropoff worse and this was Kona so it was pretty extreme... looks like I need more time on the bike!
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