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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
jkca1 wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus

What do you have against public school education?

Their method of selecting textbooks by people who like to whitewash and hinder scienetific education is pretty effective for them so far.

Oh you mean like ignoring the founders of the country for PC expediency?
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
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veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

And your point is what?

Do you know what the dawes roll is?

Native American tribal list. I reiterate what's your point?

Can you then deduce why i might take umbrage beyond "white guilt"?

I am still trying to discern why you think some other European wouldn't have discovered the continent. Your hatred of Columbus is illogical
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
White guilt? ;) im directly descended from people on the dawes rolls.

And your point is what?

Do you know what the dawes roll is?

Native American tribal list. I reiterate what's your point?

Can you then deduce why i might take umbrage beyond "white guilt"?

I am still trying to discern why you think some other European wouldn't have discovered the continent. Your hatred of Columbus is illogical

Are you really this dumb?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Happy Indigenous People's Day to you too!

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Samuel Eliot Morison: ...

Really? Don't you think that stories of Europe's "fatal senescence" (awesome word) are a bit over-hyped? It's not like Columbus' trip wasn't preceded by several decades of maritime travel searching for trade routes as long-distance trade was exploding. The printing press wasn't "soooo 1450's" in 1492. If not Columbus, some other European would have no doubt arrived in short order. Hard to know how colonies and empires would have developed in such a parallel world, but they would have definitely been from Europe.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
windywave wrote:
veganerd wrote:
Fuck columbus


Why? If he hadn't "found" America you think no one else would have?

Leaving aside the white guilt-filled exclamation of our friend ( ;-) ), I personally believe John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto) was the Italian explorer whose journey, to Newfoundland, was probably more important in terms of what would become English-speaking North America (Canada and the US).

It was his discoveries that set a spark to the massive stream of human migration to what became the English-speaking New World. Sooner or later, British (English) expansion would have recreated the Vikings' own efforts at exploration of that region of the North Atlantic, for sure. Cabot was in the right place and the right time, after Columbus' signal journeys to the Caribbean brought life to what would become the Spanish-speaking New World known as Latin America, to take advantage of the newfound desire by Western Europeans to explore.

And Giovanni Caboto (who'd moved to England and adopted the Anglicized version of his name) was himself the progenitor -- the Godfather, so to speak LOL! -- that gave birth to the phenomenon of millions of Italian immigrants who would eventually cross the Atlantic to North America and become part of the English-speaking world. How great is that? :-)


As to the anti-occidental prejudices that seem to be de rigeur nowadays among the enlightened few, it would be well to remember that slavery, cannibalism, warfare and human sacrifice all existed in the Americas before Columbus even thought of navigating a trio of small, leaky caravels across the vast expanse of the Atlantic.

Understanding that this was so, I'm not so quick to point fingers Columbus's (and Cabot's) way.

Yeah... Columbus was a good guy. All he did was sail 3 leaky boats across the Atlantic. Nice selective history.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Happy Indigenous People's Day to you too!

Woohoo!

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [oldandslow] [ In reply to ]
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oldandslow wrote:
Quote:

Samuel Eliot Morison: ...


Really? Don't you think that stories of Europe's "fatal senescence" (awesome word) are a bit over-hyped? It's not like Columbus' trip wasn't preceded by several decades of maritime travel searching for trade routes as long-distance trade was exploding. The printing press wasn't "soooo 1450's" in 1492. If not Columbus, some other European would have no doubt arrived in short order. Hard to know how colonies and empires would have developed in such a parallel world, but they would have definitely been from Europe.

Actually, from what I've read and heard, the whole Columbus voyage was a bit of a lark. Contrary to what you often read, there were some educated people at the time that knew the Earth was round and they knew, roughly, the dimensions. So those same people were capable of calculating how little chance Columbus had of arriving to India on a sea voyage (the intent of the trip). Columbus certainly didn't get funding from Italy, his original home, or Portugal, out of which he'd done most of his navigating and trading. When he did finally get something from Spain, it was three pretty lousy ships. Even the contract Columbus signed with Spain reveals that the Spanish didn't really think he was going to make it. Plus, he barely made it back on the first voyage.

So I'd give the original Columbus voyage quite a bit of credit. Now Columbus the Governor is a completely different matter.
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Happy Indigenous People's Day to you too!

I think it's appropriate that we recognize the man who opened up the New World to western civilization and helped stamp out the mostly peaceful savagery of the indigenous peoples who were killing, raping, pillaging, enslaving and generally slaughtering each other for thousands of years.

Really, who knows how many lives he saved by the bravery displayed by him and his men. G-d bless him, "capisce?" ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
Happy Indigenous People's Day to you too!
I think it's appropriate that we recognize the man who opened up the New World to western civilization and helped stamp out the mostly peaceful savagery of the indigenous peoples who were killing, raping, pillaging, enslaving and generally slaughtering each other for thousands of years.

Really, who knows how many lives he saved by the bravery displayed by him and his men. G-d bless him, "capisce?" ;-)

They didn't stamp out killing, raping, and pillaging. They joined in.

maybe she's born with it, maybe it's chlorine
If you're injured and need some sympathy, PM me and I'm very happy to write back.
disclaimer: PhD not MD
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [Dr. Tigerchik] [ In reply to ]
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Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Quote:
Happy Indigenous People's Day to you too!
I think it's appropriate that we recognize the man who opened up the New World to western civilization and helped stamp out the mostly peaceful savagery of the indigenous peoples who were killing, raping, pillaging, enslaving and generally slaughtering each other for thousands of years.

Really, who knows how many lives he saved by the bravery displayed by him and his men. G-d bless him, "capisce?" ;-)

They didn't stamp out killing, raping, and pillaging. They joined in.

In a civilized manner
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Re: Happy Columbus Day! [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Dr. Tigerchik wrote:
Quote:

Happy Indigenous People's Day to you too!
I think it's appropriate that we recognize the man who opened up the New World to western civilization and helped stamp out the mostly peaceful savagery of the indigenous peoples who were killing, raping, pillaging, enslaving and generally slaughtering each other for thousands of years.

Really, who knows how many lives he saved by the bravery displayed by him and his men. G-d bless him, "capisce?" ;-)


They didn't stamp out killing, raping, and pillaging. They joined in.


In a civilized manner

And they prayed for your immortal soul. All the difference in the world, old boy. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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