Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now (Page 4): Lavender Room: Slowtwitch Forums

Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]

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satchmo

Oct 13, 17 10:57

Post #76 of 92 (1193 views)

spot wrote:

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naïve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

But it doesn't hence the rub

It doesn't take much research to discover that there are a fair number of college athletes at many universities in this country with minimal reading skills. Certainly, something is going on at those colleges as well. While Google is top loaded with stories about UNC, dig a little in those articles and others and you'll find stories about plenty of other schools, even places like Creighton.

He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Clearly you didn't read the previous post. Explain to me how someone who could barely read and or write and yet can still pass classes at a university, and even graduate. Happens at more universities than just UNC.

And WHEN they get caught they will fry. "They" in this case are the so called D1 schools who are not NCAA darlings or royalty. And they will fry from the NCAA or some other academic oversight committee. When said academic oversight committee decides to come down on UNC, then I will change my tune. Absolutely ZERO consistency from NCAA. ZERO!

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [satchmo] [ In reply to ]

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spot

Oct 13, 17 11:06

Post #77 of 92 (1187 views)

satchmo wrote:

spot wrote:

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naïve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

But it doesn't hence the rub

He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Oh, I'm not arguing against that at all. I think that there are definitely schools that get preferential treatment from the NCAA; UNC, Duke, etc. Completely agree that there is very little consistency in what gets punished and to what severity.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]

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jepvb

Oct 13, 17 11:53

Post #78 of 92 (1174 views)

spot wrote:

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naïve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

But it doesn't hence the rub

He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Some other schools besides UNC bend the academic eligibility rules for student athletes - you don't say.

This is different from saying that all other D1 schools do the same thing (or even a similar thing) to what UNC did. No, I don't think so. If you want to make a statement like that, you have to back it up. Don't site some articles on the internet that talk about shady academic tudoring, etc. at Creighton. UNC professors/employees created sham classes and then encouraged athletes to take those sham classes. This is UNC - supposedly one of the top academic schools in the country. Show me proof of this happening at Stanford, UVA, Michigan, et al.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]

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windywave

Oct 13, 17 12:04

Post #79 of 92 (1171 views)

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naïve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

But it doesn't hence the rub

He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Don't forget the ivies and the academies are D1 too

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]

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japarker24

Oct 13, 17 12:05

Post #80 of 92 (1170 views)

For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.

Aren't all D1 schools "major", you may ask? No. UNC-Wilmington has qualified for the NCAA basketball tournament the past 2 years. I would not call UNCW a major D1 school (do they even have a football team?). Same thing with "Dunk City" Florida Gulf Coast. Also, teams like Davidson & Campbell University. IMHO, not major D1 schools.

Sorry for being so North Carolina enteric in my examples. I've never lived anywhere else.

GDTBATH!!!!

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Last edited by: japarker24: Oct 13, 17 12:10

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

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jepvb

Oct 13, 17 12:17

Post #81 of 92 (1166 views)

japarker24 wrote:

For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.

japarker24 wrote:

I've never lived anywhere else.

That's not a surprise.

japarker24 wrote:

GDTBATH!!!!

Why? UNC fans should be embarrassed, but yet they are celebrating vindication. Idiots.

Freedom just around the corner for you. But with the truth so far off, what good will it do?

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]

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spot

Oct 13, 17 13:17

Post #82 of 92 (1153 views)

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

jepvb wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

spot wrote:

windywave wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

jepvb wrote:

You must be so proud.

Proud? No. Just not naïve enough to think (something like) this doesn't happen at all major D1 schools...........

But it doesn't hence the rub

He said ALL D1 schools do something like this, I disagree and could name at least D1 20 schools where the odds of it happening are low to nonexistent.

And I would say you're pretty naive, if you think that there aren't any athletes at those 20 schools who have no business being there, and yet are passing their classes and graduating.

So now you are calling schools who let in athletes "who have no business being there" cheaters on the same level as UNC?

Priceless.

Some other schools besides UNC bend the academic eligibility rules for student athletes - you don't say.

This is different from saying that all other D1 schools do the same thing (or even a similar thing) to what UNC did. No, I don't think so. If you want to make a statement like that, you have to back it up. Don't site some articles on the internet that talk about shady academic tudoring, etc. at Creighton. UNC professors/employees created sham classes and then encouraged athletes to take those sham classes. This is UNC - supposedly one of the top academic schools in the country. Show me proof of this happening at Stanford, UVA, Michigan, et al.

Being snarky with every post isn't really helping your argument. Just saying.

And, I'm pretty sure I said that Div 1 schools that are competitive for a national championship in football or basketball all have skeletons in their closet, not that they all do what Carolina did. If you don't think that many, if not most, big time Div 1 football or basketball programs are involved in some fairly rampant cheating when it comes to NCAA rules, then I think you're pretty naive.

Oh, and here are some remarks from the University of Michigan President Mark Schlissel:

Schlissel cited the recent North Carolina academic scandal of "no-show classes" as evidence of the problem in college athletics. He then pointed to U-M's football program, which has kept its Graduation Success Rate around 70%. The most recent data goes through the 2007 freshman class.

While that puts Michigan in the middle of the Big Ten pack, Schlissel compared it to the overall U-M student body, which he cited at nearly 90%.
"We admit students who aren't as qualified, and it's probably the kids that we admit that can't honestly, even with lots of help, do the amount of work and the quality of work it takes to make progression from year to year," he said, according to the Daily. "These past two years have gotten better, but before that, the graduation rates were terrible, with football somewhere in the 50s and 60s when our total six-year rate at the university is somewhere near 90%. So that's a challenge."
Then there was the U of M basketball scandal: https://en.wikipedia.org/...n_basketball_scandal
There are also a number of stories swirling around Jim Harbaugh and NCAA violations.
There is also this, that talks about "clustering" at 18 universities: http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-football/news/ncaa-academic-reform-graduation-rates-clustering/1fe35zt78ufnz1pb9y5ipfdytp

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]

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japarker24

Oct 13, 17 13:50

Post #83 of 92 (1144 views)

jepvb wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.

I gave as examples Stanford, UVA, Michigan - I could name others. "Major" enough for you? Which classes at those schools do you not have to do any work for in order to get an A, which classes school officials actively encourage student athletes to take in order to remain academically eligible?

I never said all major D1 have "no show" or "paper" classes. I said they have (something like) that. I love how you have to put words into my mouth to make your case.

japarker24 wrote:

I've never lived anywhere else.

That's not a surprise.

You say this like it's supposed to be a knock against me or something. Well, I'm proud (see what I did there) to be a life long North Carolinian. I've been to 27 states and 6 foreign countries and I wouldn't change a thing.

japarker24 wrote:

GDTBATH!!!!

Why? UNC fans should be embarrassed, but yet they are celebrating vindication. Idiots.

We are celebrating because the NCAA has been holding this over our heads for basically 7 years now. And, for them to finally say that they don't have jurisdiction is, for us, a reason to celebrate since "we" have been saying that all along.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Last edited by: japarker24: Oct 13, 17 14:15

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

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windywave

Oct 13, 17 15:22

Post #84 of 92 (1129 views)

japarker24 wrote:

jepvb wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

For the record, I said all major D1 schools, not all D1 schools.

japarker24 wrote:

I've never lived anywhere else.

japarker24 wrote:

GDTBATH!!!!

Why? UNC fans should be embarrassed, but yet they are celebrating vindication. Idiots.

Congratulations on getting away with cheating and counting amongst your alumni such well educated people.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [jepvb] [ In reply to ]

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hbog12

Oct 13, 17 16:14

Post #85 of 92 (1123 views)

Like, you I refuse to believe that all the major programs lack integrity ala UNC. The argument from UNC fans "if we did it, everyone other top program must be doing it" is ridiculous and sad.

We lost out top recruit to Arizona in this scandal. I hope Jahvon Quinerly never plays a day of NCAA ball. It gives me hope that Villanova and Jay Wright are playing above the line and not stooping to this "level. And if they are, I will walk away in disgust.

Although it was a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away, I was a student at VU when we won the title in 1985. I was, and half of our bb team were, communications majors. I saw those guys in class. I heard them give their comms theory defense. Harold Jensen and I had 3rd year Spanish together. No fake classes. VU has a 100% graduation rate and the classes are real.

As for UNC, I will NEVER get tired of watching this... NEVER.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L7FFJUz0tdo

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [sto] [ In reply to ]

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spot

Oct 13, 17 18:10

Post #86 of 92 (1107 views)

sto wrote:

Well, except for the fact that Wright and Villanova were guilty of so many small infractions in 2003-2004 that in the eyes of the NCAA they rose to the level of a major infraction. Look, perhaps Villanova is cleaner than the rest; I hope you’re right. But, it would appear that ‘nova is not as clean as the driven snow, much as you try to make it sound.

And, as somebody who also went to school in the 1980s, I don’t think that your personal experience with what happened 30 years ago necessarily extrapolates to what is going on today. I too had classes with guys on the UNC B-ball team back then, but clearly things went very awry since. The emphasis by the NCAA on graduation rates has placed a lot of pressure on schools to make that happen.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]

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windywave

Oct 13, 17 22:06

Post #87 of 92 (1085 views)

spot wrote:

sto wrote:

So the solution is to admit "students" that need fraudulent classes to stay in school? How about not admitting "students" that can't take a normal class load no matter how good they are at sports?

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [windywave] [ In reply to ]

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spot

Oct 14, 17 4:59

Post #88 of 92 (1076 views)

windywave wrote:

spot wrote:

sto wrote:

So the solution is to admit "students" that need fraudulent classes to stay in school? How about not admitting "students" that can't take a normal class load no matter how good they are at sports?

Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.

___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [spot] [ In reply to ]

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slowguy

Oct 14, 17 5:16

Post #89 of 92 (1073 views)

spot wrote:

Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.

This is not a complicated problem. We just need to stop pretending that college basketball and football are student athletic programs. For many schools (probably not all, but an awful lot of them) basketball and football are semi-pro leagues designed to add revenue streams for the school. So, break them apart from the NCAA, form semi-pro leagues with teams that are attached to the schools, pay the semi-pro athletes and don't require them to pretend to be students.

If there are legitimate students who still want to engage in friendly competitive extracurricular basketball or football, then form NCAA teams to do that, but separate them from the money making league. Go back to having college athletics be what they are supposed to be (and what they still are for most other sports), a way for students to have some fun outside of class, and the NCAA will have an easier time dealing with them. Keep the big money making football and basketball teams, but separate them from the students and NCAA. If a football or basketball player wants to play in the big semi-pro leagues, but also wants to get a degree, they do it just like any number of NBA or NFL players who work on their degrees as pros. They pay the university tuition, and take classes in their time off from their primary job of practicing and playing.

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [slowguy] [ In reply to ]

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blueraider_mike

Oct 14, 17 5:25

Post #90 of 92 (1072 views)

slowguy wrote:

spot wrote:

Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.

Or make all sure all the profits are poured back into the schools academically, at the least having all scholarships fully funded for all sports. But in general, I agree with you. This isn't complicated.

As an aside, I always laugh when I hear the players complain about the schools making money off them too...at the school in our town (Middle Tennessee, this is mid-major FBS) - the players get a full ride, they get cash to make up for this myth of full cost of attendance, if they qualify for pell grants they get even more cash. They have academic center with tutors 24/7. They are being paid.

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [slowguy] [ In reply to ]

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big kahuna

Oct 14, 17 15:32

Post #91 of 92 (1046 views)

slowguy wrote:

spot wrote:

Therein lies the rub. The schools have all sorts of competing requirements, with the most pressure put on them to win at high level sports, which tends to trump all.

This is the 146-word essay that earned a UNC jock an A-minus:

"On the evening of December Rosa Parks decided that she was going to sit in the white people section on the bus in Montgomery, Alabama. During this time blacks had to give up there seats to whites when more whites got on the bus. Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat. Her and the bus driver began to talk and the conversation went like this. “Let me have those front seats” said the driver. She didn’t get up and told the driver that she was tired of giving her seat to white people. “I’m going to have you arrested,” said the driver. “You may do that,” Rosa Parks responded. Two white policemen came in and Rosa Parks asked them “why do you all push us around?” The police officer replied and said “I don’t know, but the law is the law and you’re under arrest."

So, what's the value of an education if you allow for academic fraud?

The UNC fake class scandal: Athlete got an A- for a one-paragraph paper.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

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Re: Most Corrupt College B-Ball Program? Looking Like Louisville Right Now [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]

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big kahuna

Oct 15, 17 5:59

Post #92 of 92 (1028 views)

From a Duke-y perspective:

A Pitiful Victory (Lies, damned lies and UNC)

"The sad thing is we bought it.

For a long time, we bought it - the whole business. The idea that UNC was a public Ivy. The idea that there was such a thing as the Carolina Way. The idea that the crucible of the ‘60s scandal was so severe that UNC, scorched as it was, would stay away from the dark side of the game forevermore.

Worse, when Duke lost to these cheaters, we consoled ourselves, and our readers, that at least UNC did things the right way. It wasn’t like losing to, say, Kentucky or worse, Vegas. UNC still had some honor.

It took awhile but we began to catch on. We heard rumors in the ‘90s, some very specific. We heard one that Dean Smith called a professor and left a message asking for a lenient grade for one of his players.

When the professor called back, the rumor said, Smith told him never mind. I got it from someone else.

We knew about the 400 SAT of course, everyone knew that. We didn’t know until later what FSU coach Pat Kennedy said about how it wasn't fair to play UNC when the Tar Heels started five academic exceptions."

Read the whole thing:

A Pitiful Victory - Duke Basketball Report

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

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