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Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp
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http://lavamagazine.com/...eling-tips-for-kona/

I thought this was a really good article and one of the better one's out there about nutrition advice/strategies. Mainly due to the fact that Rapp compared two different stances OSMO's vs FE (solids vs liquid). As I'm preparing for my first Ironman (IMFL) in a month, I've been doing a lot of trial and error, a lot of reading about nutrition (on here and various articles), and asking a lot people questions. It's been a bit of a struggle and overwhelming at times. I have had mini freakouts during my workouts just thinking about my nutrition. What I have come to realize in the past week is that everyone is just different, especially when you look at the wide range of folks who are competing in Ironman's. There are folks who can consume more than 400 calories an hour, mainly on solids. And then there are folks who need 300 calories or less and do it just on liquids. I've read a lot of the threads/posts/RR on here where people talk about their nutrition. The biggest thing I have found that is missing from these and would be helpful to others is what their training was like leading up to the race, height/weight, and their splits (time spent out on the course. Someone doing an IM in 11-13 hours is completely different than someone who is in the sub 9 to 10 hour range. Same goes with someone that is 180-200 lbs compared to someone that is 130-150 lbs.

Just thought I would share my thoughts. I have more but I won't bore everyone.

Thanks to Rapp for the article. It has confirmed my recent reading, thoughts, and my own testing.

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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I use Infinit custom blend but I had to get use to it over time. I started with their Go Far after trying a lot of different stuff. I tried everything from 1 scoop to 4 scoops per bottle with the Infinit. I use to force a bottle down per hour like suggested but always ended up with it sitting in my stomach hurting. I have done my best rides by just sipping on a 2 scoop bottle as I feel I need it. That usually puts a bottle between 80-100 minutes each. I am in central Florida so it's been pretty hot/humid. I also learned I need pure water after 1 or 2 bottles depending on the heat. I refill the 2 bottles after they are empty with powder I carry in a ziplock bag and I will have those ready in Special needs at IMFL.

Good luck in the race. I am looking forward to seeing how you do.

http://www.sfuelsgolonger.com
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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This is def something I need to work on more, and as you say the speed and duration changes everything. I've got nutrition pretty dialed in for my standalone marathons, but struggled a lot during my first full this summer.
Previously when i ran around 3:30 I would take 1,5 gels/hour, but when I got under 3 that didn't work at all. Recently started using Maurten for my running and so far its been great, will try it next season on the bike as well, but will be hard to drink during the run as I don't want to carry a bottle with me. Unfortunately the run is where I benefit the most from it as I can consume solids running sub 7 min pace and my stomach doesn't like gels after 6+h of training.

Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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very good article from Jordan covering a lot of important elements.

Here's my perspective as a coach. i watch daily 20-25 athletes execute workouts...

-athletes are more alike than different. no, you guys are not all special unique snowflake..... your closer to clones.

- For the same level of fitness, and size/gender, athletes will react the same (very similar) to nutrition product and strategy

-99% of nutritional issue are simple pacing issue. Once a athlete accept that....nutrition become one the most simple element of the race

-all drinks, gels, shots etc... ingredient #1 is maltodextrin.... this is the main product most athletes will live on on race day. it s just the form/brand that change but what goes in is extremely similar.


all this consider, you are right that seeking athlete of your specific level, and in the same time range as you, will be a very good indicator of what nutrition plan could work for you.

but when i come time to test it in training, it s very simple. head out with more calories then needed and track how much you can take in at your specific intensity without getting sick. Then, your on the path to have it figure it out. The more you can eat, the faster you can run. The faster you are...the more you will have to rely on liquid form. but if you are out there for 12-13h...there is nothing wrong with the PB&J sandwich as Jordan mention.

nutrition is something you get to practice daily, it as to be nail down much before race day. But if you approach it methodologically, it s relatively simple and straight forward.

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [timr] [ In reply to ]
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timr wrote:
I use Infinit custom blend but I had to get use to it over time. I started with their Go Far after trying a lot of different stuff. I tried everything from 1 scoop to 4 scoops per bottle with the Infinit. I use to force a bottle down per hour like suggested but always ended up with it sitting in my stomach hurting. I have done my best rides by just sipping on a 2 scoop bottle as I feel I need it. That usually puts a bottle between 80-100 minutes each. I am in central Florida so it's been pretty hot/humid. I also learned I need pure water after 1 or 2 bottles depending on the heat. I refill the 2 bottles after they are empty with powder I carry in a ziplock bag and I will have those ready in Special needs at IMFL.

Good luck in the race. I am looking forward to seeing how you do.

Thank you. Best of luck to you as well.

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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
very good article from Jordan covering a lot of important elements.

Here's my perspective as a coach. i watch daily 20-25 athletes execute workouts...

-athletes are more alike than different. no, you guys are not all special unique snowflake..... your closer to clones.

- For the same level of fitness, and size/gender, athletes will react the same (very similar) to nutrition product and strategy

-99% of nutritional issue are simple pacing issue. Once a athlete accept that....nutrition become one the most simple element of the race

-all drinks, gels, shots etc... ingredient #1 is maltodextrin.... this is the main product most athletes will live on on race day. it s just the form/brand that change but what goes in is extremely similar.


all this consider, you are right that seeking athlete of your specific level, and in the same time range as you, will be a very good indicator of what nutrition plan could work for you.

but when i come time to test it in training, it s very simple. head out with more calories then needed and track how much you can take in at your specific intensity without getting sick. Then, your on the path to have it figure it out. The more you can eat, the faster you can run. The faster you are...the more you will have to rely on liquid form. but if you are out there for 12-13h...there is nothing wrong with the PB&J sandwich as Jordan mention.

nutrition is something you get to practice daily, it as to be nail down much before race day. But if you approach it methodologically, it s relatively simple and straight forward.

I agree with everything you said Jonny. I have done more research on nutrition in the last 2 weeks than ever before. It was hard to at first to weed out the bad info.... some of it even on here.

My first 70.3 back in 2012 was just a terrible experience. I did not take in enough liquid or calories on the bike and paid for it dearly. To this day, I'm scared to not take in enough so I actually probably over fuel now (I have come to realize this in the last 3 weeks). My first two long rides (103 miles and 124) in the few weeks, I took in too much. Had energy towards the end of the ride and during my ROTB, no cramping, no bloating, no sloshy stomach,...... just had to use the restroom multiple times after the ride and during my run. I put all my nutrition and liquids in a spreadsheet and calculated it all. I came to realize, I was just taking in too much and after e-mailing Robert Kunz of FE, he suggested I take out some chews I would take in the first hour of my rides (everything else I took in was liquid). So I took a little less and took out the chews and the next week (last weekend), I had zero issues. Ran well for 8 miles off the bike (112 miles) with no need for a restroom break. Definitely was an "aha" moment.

I do think your comment about being able to take in more, will make you run faster is not brought up enough to people. And by taking in more, you really mean "absorb". Because you can take in a lot but if your body can absorb it, it will only cause you problems.

Appreciate you chiming in here.

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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty interesting stuff to poke around with here if you haven’t before.

http://www.mysportscience.com/
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for informing on the article: I'm going to read it. But the title picture of that article has certainly nothing to do with Kona!
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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I wrote the article a year ago for the print magazine; when it was published it had quite different pictures, but LAVA may not have had usage rights for web for those images. I dunno.

"Non est ad astra mollis e terris via." - Seneca | rappstar.com | FB - Rappstar Racing | IG - @jordanrapp
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo wrote:
very good article from Jordan covering a lot of important elements.

Here's my perspective as a coach. i watch daily 20-25 athletes execute workouts...

-athletes are more alike than different. no, you guys are not all special unique snowflake..... your closer to clones.

- For the same level of fitness, and size/gender, athletes will react the same (very similar) to nutrition product and strategy

-99% of nutritional issue are simple pacing issue. Once a athlete accept that....nutrition become one the most simple element of the race

.

That right there is solid freak'n gold.

"Good genes are not a requirement, just the obsession to beat ones brains out daily"...the Griz
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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I did a detailed write-up about the science of osmolality and how to leverage it for triathlon a while back. It's really nice to know the chemistry of what's going on with starches vs. simple sugars so you can up your calories without getting sick:

Glucose, Fructose, Sucrose (basically, most "-ose") are simple sugars and you can only absorb a fraction as much as maltodextrin before you feel sick. Maltodextrin is a starch and you can digest probably twice as much and still feel fine. Your stomach recognizes the number of molecules first, not the number of calories. Starch packs a lot more calories per molecule, as a long string of single sugars strung together, tricking the stomach and sneaking them through. Imagine eating 500 calories from jolly ranchers versus 500 calories from potatoes. Which one is going to make your stomach wretch with regret first?

These "ose"es are broken by your guts into two parts, and the part that's actually energy is dextrose. It's the right side of the molecule. "Dex" is latin for "right side". You can go buy dextrose powder no problem. So dextrose IS blood glucose (your energy), without being "glu"ed to the other side. Incidentally, the name "Dexter" comes from the meaning "right-handed, skilled" if you want a way to remember all this.

If you string dextrose (again, which is glucose) together as a starch so you can absorb more without getting sick, it's called maltoDEXtrin. It IS dextrose, which is the usable part of glucose. But now your body sees what was a lot of molecules as a lot fewer molecules, so the calories can get by without as much drama because...


Your stomach needs X amount of water per molecule to digest sugars and starches. Since maltodextrin is a bunch of dextrose strung together as a single molecule, it needs half as much water or less to digest it than if you just ate simple sugars like sucrose, glucose, or fructose. The pain in your stomach when eating simple sugars is your body telling you it can't get any more water to all the molecules you put in it. Those sugars are pulling water in, but there's none left to give, so you cramp and puke. If you did maltodextrin instead, your stomach can sneak the molecules by with the same amount of water or even less, no problem.


Conclusion: Consider upping the maltodextrin instead of getting into more fructose, glucose, or sucrose. It's already what you're looking for. It turns to glucose within seconds after it passes your stomach lining and doesn't make you sick.


----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
Last edited by: ZenTriBrett: Oct 6, 17 11:51
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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Great write up and explanation. Thank you.

Honest question here... what are people eating/drinking out there that is mainly glucose, fructose, sucrose, and not maltodextrin? I've never really looked into all the products offered out there to separate the bad from the good.

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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
Great write up and explanation. Thank you.

Honest question here... what are people eating/drinking out there that is mainly glucose, fructose, sucrose, and not maltodextrin? I've never really looked into all the products offered out there to separate the bad from the good.


Gatorade, honey, fruit, fruit juice, Coke... And if you look at Gu Chomps and Clif Blocks, their primary ingredients are sugars first, with maltodextrin being way down the list. But their gels are maltodextrin first, other sugars second. So if you want a happy tummy, the same company's gels are a smarter bet than their chewy block things.

If you look at Gatorade's ingredients (water, sucrose (table sugar), dextrose, citric acid, natural flavor, sodium chloride (table salt), sodium citrate, monopotassium phosphate, and flavoring/coloring ingredients) you'll see there's no starch in there at all. And that's why people can only drink so much Gatorade before puking it up. But the same person can eat 3 or 4 gels made mostly of maltodextrin in an hour and be totally fine.

And you'll also see lots of comments of people loving these waffle fuels... Bread is a starch. :)

----------------------------------------------------------
Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com
Last edited by: ZenTriBrett: Oct 6, 17 11:44
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Re: Race Day Fueling Tips for Kona - Rapp [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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yes, when we talk about taking as much as you can in..... we mean absorbing it! but my experience is, as long as we make sure the athlete mainly use maltodextrin....the only consequence of taking a little too much is some of it coming up!!!! moving to water for 10-15min and slowing down the pace will rectify the situation and you just learn where your limit is at.

my observation are the same as ZenTriBrett, chew, block, shot etc.... if maltodextrin is far down the list of ingrediant...tummy wont like it as much.

the only exception i see is coke.... seems like the body process well high-fructose corn syrup at effort. But coke from other country (outside usa and canada) with surcose as main sugar are problematic....

Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
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