ATF would be tasked with defining what would and would not run afoul of this law. They would issue opinion letters like they have done with bump stocks and Sig Sauer arm braces (for example).

COULD they go as far as you suggest? Sure. But, it is doubtful. A trigger job typically isn't done to speed up fire rate but to increase accuracy and break point. Muzzle brake controls recoil. Etc., etc. I don't think it would be taken that far, but certainly is COULD.

Now, what WOULD be on that list? The Fostech Echo Trigger. That's the trigger that allows a "double fire" with each trigger pull. One round fires when the trigger is pulled. A second round fires when the trigger resets. Thus, it fires two rounds with one trigger pull. No question that would fall under this law.

EDIT TO ADD: Here is Franklin Armory's Binary Firing system, which is like the Fostech Echo Trigger:

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

One could argue 'high-capacity' magazines increase the rate of fire. Even small things, a trigger pad, new recoil springs, 3.5# disconnector, and on and on can increase the rate of fire. She must have learned her lesson from chasing manufactures of things like bullet buttons down the legislative rabbit hole.

Problem is Feinstein's bill specifically states that increasing rate of fire doesn't have to be a design feature, only a byproduct. And yes, binary triggers will be on the list if not now, soon.

Well fuck a duck, I agree wholeheartedly with DJ on something. Well played DJ, well played.

Yeah, but Feinstein's bill is not going to be passed. Bump stocks may go away, but her bill, as drafted, will never make it through both houses.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Ammunition and temperature changes would then run afoul of the law as well. Any gas operated weapon will run at a slower rate of fire in at altitude in dry, cold air than it would run at sea level in saturated, warm air. We're talking about a cyclic rate difference of over 100rpm.

If they are going to regulate the rate of fire, the regulation will have to center on the trigger. After sitting and thinking for five minutes, I'm not entirely sure how one would approach that. The best idea I can come up with is forcing all new semi-automatic weapons (perhaps just rifles) to reset the safety after each pull of the trigger thus making each shot a two-step process.

Unless you're Jerry Miculek...

I will post this again:

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Doesn’t a bump stock allow you to maintain a high rate of fire magazine after magazine after magazine? I would be surprised if the older guy with the finger the ladies love could keep doing that continuously for, say, ten minutes (besides the fact that he’s obviously an exception and not the rule). That sort of high frequency repetitive movement tends to lead to cramping or just breaks down in fairly short order, no?

You are correct in everything you say. I was merely responding to the statement regarding rate of fire. You correctly point out sustainability is another matter.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I have a question for you or anyone else here who has fired one. How dangerous are they to use? It seems like it would be fairly easy to have an accidental discharge loading or reloading. Other then the safety on the weapon is there anything else ?

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

You still have to pull the trigger. When the safety is on, the trigger cannot be pulled. The real danger is loss of control while firing. You have to be prepare for the recoil and be able to control it. So, you have to ensure there are no errant rounds. But, it requires constant tension to operate. So, if you were to drop it or even lose grip, it would stop firing immediately.

To operate, you have to pull back on the pistol grip and push forward on the forward grip or handguard simultaneously.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Thanks, it sounds a little more complicated then what I was picturing

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"I think I've cracked the code. double letters are cheaters except for perfect squares (a, d, i, p and y). So Leddy isn't a cheater... "

POTUS seems to like the idea. Not that has anything to do with it passing.

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Suffer Well.

This seems a little like a deflection to me. My understanding is - nothing can be done without actual legislation.

There was discussion around the time of the LV shooting pushing ATF to "regulate" bump stocks. However, ATF responded (and rightfully so) that there is nothing they can do, given the current laws. ATF is hamstrung by the NFA and its definitions of "automatic" and "semi-automatic" weapons. There is nothing within the parameters of the current law that would give the ATF "jurisdiction" over bump-fire devices because the firearm remains semi-automatic. The ATF (and the Justice Department) have both previously indicated the law must change before any agency can engage in any regulations over these devices.

I believe this is correct. If you look at the NFA and they Federal Regulations regarding the powers of the ATF, I cannot see any mechanism for action by the ATF.

This is why I drafted my proposed legislation in my response to Slowman in another thread.

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

To add to my prior response, above, per Ali Vitali:

The memo Trump signed on bump stocks, includes this line: "Although the Obama Administration repeatedly concluded that particular bump stock type devices were lawful to purchase and possess, I sought further clarification of the law restricting fully automatic machine guns."


Here is the actual memo:

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

NOTHING WILL CHANGE

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Just Triing
Triathlete since 9:56:39 AM EST Aug 20, 2006.
Be kind English is my 2nd language. My primary language is Dave it's a unique evolution of English.

Columbine didn't have ARs or any rifles at all. Pistols and shotguns DURING the AWB. It's a whole lot of smoke.

Nice but there is no way Trump wrote that memo. There are too many big words and it follows a train of thought.

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

But we have to do SOMETHING!!!!!

Who cares if it doesn't work.

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