Do you think it's helpful to mix in all 4 strokes if I can do them comfortably,

Yes. If nothing else, it builds body awareness.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

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2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Just curious - were you an ex-competitive swimmer, or was swimming just something that naturally improved quickly?

I have recently been re-experimenting with breast/fly/back as a better than MOPish AOS swimmer and I'm still horrified with how slow I am at the other strokes compared to my freestyle even when I'm trying near-maximally hard on breast/fly/back. I'm near 1:20-3/100yd pace for distance in the free, but close to 2:00/100 for all the other strokes for similar effort! Worst part is that I feel like my technique in the other strokes isn't too terrible (having watched all the youtube vids), but I still feel quite terrible in the water doing them... was hoping my freestyle proficiency would x-over at least a little to the other strokes but no such luck here.

I was a competitive swimmer through high school and continued to swim regularly for a couple years after. Didn't swim at all for about 10 years, then started some easy freestyle swimming as part of Tri training.

I'm now picking up the other strokes again for the first time in 20+ years. I've been very pleasantly surprised how much muscle memory has allowed me to quickly improve. Just as a comparison my 100 free splits are 1:15 to 1:25. My back and breast are ~1:30ish. My fly split has gone from "I can't do 50 fly anymore" to 1:50 down to high 1:30's now.

Perhaps as importantly, I've been enjoying the swim workouts a 1000x and putting in harder swimmer efforts than I have in decades. Surely that will pay some sort of dividend (or wreck my shoulders...)

But as I mentioned earlier, even if I dropped my swim time to world record pace I'd still follow it up with the world's slowest marathon so...

100% yes. You sound like me - 54 mins swim, 5 hour bike, run, well, erm, don't ask. Last time around for the Ironman I exclusively just did whatever my masters squad was doing, and did nothing ontop - no lake swims, no long distance freestyle sets. We do all 4 strokes, sometimes a whole session of one such as butterfly Monday. It gives you a lot more strength that just banging out repetitive long distance free sets. I think that for front of the pack swimmers, you will likely swim fast (in triathlon circles) regardless of what training you do.

I could park swimming until two months before my IM and still go comfortably sub 60 with a month or two of build. So, for me it is about keeping it interesting as I enjoy swimming more than anything else. Mixing it all up and doing lots of hard interval sets with the masters squad has seen my 100, 200 and 400m pb's all drop quite significantly over the past couple of years, but this hasn't interestingly translated into any meaningful gains at IM distance - minute or so faster as compared to when I didn't swim with a masters squad.

I swim 3 times a week - I think with some weights and a couple of extra sessions with the masters team I could get under 50 for the IM, but it would mean ditching bike and run sessions which obviously for me would be counter - productive. I would say for you, mix it up, keep it interesting. You are obviously a fast swimmer and don't need endless lengths of slow steady freestyle. Go join a masters team - it will be humbling. I thought I was pretty hot until I got lapped on a 400m by a couple of the studs in our lane :-)

Absolutely it is helpful. I mean the catch phase of fly and breast aren't all that different from free (without the rotation) so there's a direct conditioning and technique benefit. Backstroke is helpful for preventing muscle imbalances from doing too much freestyle, getting your shoulders moving in the opposite direction. Fly helps with a strong core, breast gives you good feel for the water and is easier on the shoulders when you need a break, and I personally think the outward knee/leg movements are helpful for preventative hip strengthening for running.. they are all good!

Plus strokes keep swimming interesting, so you can stay in the water longer and enjoy it. Particularly this far out, no need to get too specific right now.

Ironmike78, add a few minutes to your swim and bike and you are me. I'm the same about training for the swim - in some ways I think I'd be better off if I skipped swimming until 6 or 8 weeks prior and focused on the other two. On the other hand I love swimming so...

anyway, thanks for the input - that's what I was hoping to hear. We do have a local masters team and they're a great group.. and very humbling indeed.

By the way, if I had to do all-fly mondays my workout would last about 10 minutes. While I'm happy to be able to do a decent butterfly again that shit is hard work.

Great info, fishybike. Thanks.

Yes.

Without a doubt.

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Yeah it's horrible - in a 50m pool too. First few months we did it I was drowning. The favourite of our coach is a solid warm up and then somewhere around 30 x 50m flat out fly repping on 70s. Usually then ends it with a 400m IM. I've rarely been so close to vomitting in a pool :-)

There is absolutely no down side and a definite upside, and you seem to have already figured out the benefits. 100/200 IM's are a blast in workout and usually end up being harder aerobically than just free. And you strengthen all those little muscles and core that free just doe not get.

And when and if you get to 400IM's, well now you are a tough guy who laughs at the pace in the lead pack..(-;

if you have the extra time, it can be ''fun'' but in term of gain and improve on your 1h ironman time, it s not necessary.

So while i have nothing against it, when it come time to design a swim program to get a triathlete faster (exemple from 1h to 54min), other stroke are not a important part of it.... and i rarely ever advise then unless you get really bored!


look at the core program of the top ITU swim groups....IM is almost none existent.

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Jonathan Caron / Professional Coach / ironman champions / age group world champions
Jonnyo Coaching
Instargram

In fairness, if you look at the core program of the top swim groups....IM is an integral part of all of them.