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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Duffy wrote:
I don’t but into the notion that an opinion is more valid because the holder of it had a family member die in combat (unless it’s an opinion on what it’s like to have a family member die combat).

If fact, prefacing an opinion with such a statement arguably makes it less valid.

Ever feel as if you're listening to the teacher from Peanuts? whah, whah, whah.....

It doesn't matter what I say or anyone else says - you're always right!

Yay!
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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blueraider_mike wrote:
I found an article that digs into the stats a bit...

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/451466/police-violence-against-black-men-rare-heres-what-data-actually-say


If there is a bias, its so small that its insignificant, one of the big reasons is that it happens so rare.


The protest isn't about systemic racism, its specifically about Police harming "unarmed" black men. And of course the Flag represents an evil country (Colin K words). "I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses black people and people of color," Kaepernick told NFL Media in an exclusive interview after the game. "To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder."

What I find interesting, since he was adopted by "white" folk who raised him in a solid middle class area - what exactly "radicalizes" a guys like this after he has maid millions?

Interesting article. Thank you. I'd like to dig more into the stats behind it to see how it jibes with other data about profiling, etc.

Also, be careful about declaring what the protest is or isn't about. Just because CK said the quote above doesn't mean it's the only aspect he's protesting, nor what everyone who is kneeling now is protesting.
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [mdeth1313] [ In reply to ]
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Ever feel like an asshole?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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I’m to start every post from now on with, “my dad died of brain cancer and...”

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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When they cant win the argument based on facts you move on to emotion.
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [orphious] [ In reply to ]
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orphious wrote:
When they cant win the argument based on facts you move on to emotion.

My dad died of brain cancer and I’ve noticed that this appeal to emotion has been going on for a long time.

Both sides do it.

Did I mention that my dad died of brain cancer?

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Human nature.. and Yes. You've mentioned it a few times and I'm sorry for your loss.
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [blueraider_mike] [ In reply to ]
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An interesting article in the NY Times.

It suggests that there is no racial bias when it comes to police shootings, or that whites are fired on slightly more often than blacks. There are some shortcomings, but it's interesting.

It does need to be put into perspective, however, since the study says that in the years studied in Houston officers fired 507 times, but there were a total of 1.6 million arrests. That means 99.9995% of the officer interactions were non-shooting (I'm estimating here).

The study found that black people were 17% more likely to be the recipient of non-lethal force when everything else was taken into account. So while this study suggests there is little racial bias in shootings, there appears to be one in most of the other interactions (paraphrasing).
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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swimwithstones wrote:
An interesting article in the NY Times.

It suggests that there is no racial bias when it comes to police shootings, or that whites are fired on slightly more often than blacks. There are some shortcomings, but it's interesting.

It does need to be put into perspective, however, since the study says that in the years studied in Houston officers fired 507 times, but there were a total of 1.6 million arrests. That means 99.9995% of the officer interactions were non-shooting (I'm estimating here).

The study found that black people were 17% more likely to be the recipient of non-lethal force when everything else was taken into account. So while this study suggests there is little racial bias in shootings, there appears to be one in most of the other interactions (paraphrasing).

I've read that study. It's a good one. But I honestly believe that the black community (at least among the various US minority communities) has more serious problems to deal with than some sort of racial inequality.

Single-mother households, for example. Something like 70% of all black households are now single-parent (usually single mother). I believe that prior to the Great Society initiatives of the mid-1960s, only about 30% of black households were single-parent. I'm also not criticizing our social welfare system -- because I do believe in a social safety net (though one that encourages eventual independence and responsibility).

But it's sometimes the case that a single mother (and repeating this point: single-mother households in the black community exist in great number) can draw more in social welfare benefits than from gainful employment -- benefits that she would lose if she were to marry the father of her children (a healthy percentage of single mothers with multiple children also have had those children by different men, unfortunately). It's almost a disincentive to work and to strive to move into the middle class, and a thriving sub-economy -- which doesn't require withholding of taxes or any of the other hallmarks of traditional employment -- is also at work in many minority communities, which convinces some that there's no need to even obtain a formal or "regular" job. I personally know of a about a dozen people, all in their mid-to-late-30s, who haven't yet come close to obtaining the 40 quarters of work and payroll withholding necessary to qualify for Social Security retirement benefits. This is troublesome as well.

Public schools in many cities where black populations are high (such as right here in Detroit) are almost just warehouses, moving kids along until they can get them out the door in high school, either through graduation or dropout (the rate of which is also high in the black community). Many black employees (heck, many young adult employees of all socioeconomic strata, to be honest) emerge from these environments with little in the way of job discipline or possessing the minimum aptitudes that will give them a reasonable chance of succeeding in the jobs they can find. These people, especially in the black community, are starting out with two strikes already against them.

My sister was a Head Start center administrator down in Detroit until her retirement. Almost no black children at her center came from a two-parent household. Many kids were moved from caregiver to caregiver, and the most stable households tended to be grandparent-centered ones, though those were few and far between. Usually, if they kids were brought into the center by a single mother, there were sometimes severe issues in the home environment, starting with very poor diets (Pepsi and pizza every night), not enough hours sleeping (because they were allowed to watch TV -- which was also their babysitter -- all hours of the night), poor social adjustment -- many of the kids acted out physically, pushing and shoving or even striking other kids (kids learn such behaviors, usually) and so forth.

I'm not sure a strong argument can be made anymore that systemic racial inequality, or outright racism, is producing these negative outcomes -- especially not in majority minority communities and cities (Detroit is one of those). I'm more a believer in dysfunction within a given community than anything else.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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Nah, not from you. But one question - is it ok for all of those fans mentioned in the article that disrespect the national anthem by changing the words to suit their team (or not their team in one instance mentioned)? How about the band mentioned that butchered the anthem? Ok, maybe not them- they didn't do it on purpose.
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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The picture is funny, but the commentary and the graph are also sad. That community is in danger of self-immolation:



"Look at that graph below. Anyone else see the big, glaring problem there? I ask you, why aren't any of the fashionably woke celebutards or oppressed millionaire athletes "taking the knee" for this?"







"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [mdeth1313] [ In reply to ]
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mdeth1313 wrote:
Nah, not from you. But one question - is it ok for all of those fans mentioned in the article that disrespect the national anthem by changing the words to suit their team (or not their team in one instance mentioned)? How about the band mentioned that butchered the anthem? Ok, maybe not them- they didn't do it on purpose.

Maybe you haven’t actually read what I think about the flag, National Anthem, and kneeling.

It doesn’t bother me at all.

What I don’t like is politics infecting a fucking football game. How it’s done isn’t really an issue.

When I’m at a game and the anthem is played I stand because that’s the polite thing to do. If you don’t want to stand I don’t really care.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [Duffy] [ In reply to ]
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I have to agree. Who gives a shit what a bunch of dumb jocks think? These guys can barely manage their own lives. They aren't role models, or moral sages.

Oh, and as far as BLM is concerned, if you don't want to get shot by the police, don't be a criminal, and certainly don't act like one in front of a nervous guy with a gun on his hip, duh.

Victim mentality.. Darwinism at it's finest.
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [RZ] [ In reply to ]
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My dad died of brain cancer and my son walks back and forth to a neighbor friend’s house sometimes with a B.B. gun.

We also live near a police station.

I’ve told him repeatedly that if a policeman tells him to put the gun down he is to do so immediately. I tell him the police don’t know it’s a B.B. gun and that that is not the time to be explaining that it is just a B.B. gun.

I’ve showed him news stories of people getting shot by police to reinforce this.

Same goes if he’s holding a toy gun, stick, phone.

If the cops say “drop it” you drop whatever you’re holding.

It’s AMAZING that people argue with cops.

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
Last edited by: Duffy: Sep 27, 17 15:33
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [swimwithstones] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
5. Black Americans may be excluded from juries because of their race.

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A Brooklyn juror deciding the case of a motorist accused of manslaughter forced a mistrial Thursday after declaring that she didn’t want to convict a black man.

“I don’t want to put a black man in jail. That’s crazy,” the middle-aged African American woman, identified as Juror No. 3, told other jurors, according to a note to Brooklyn Supreme Court Justice Vincent Del Giudice.

http://www.nydailynews.com/...al-article-1.3528086

Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb
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Re: I propose a really effective protest idea for those poor downtrodden NFL players.... [RZ] [ In reply to ]
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RZ wrote:
I have to agree. Who gives a shit what a bunch of dumb jocks think? These guys can barely manage their own lives. They aren't role models, or moral sages.

Oh, and as far as BLM is concerned, if you don't want to get shot by the police, don't be a criminal, and certainly don't act like one in front of a nervous guy with a gun on his hip, duh.

Victim mentality.. Darwinism at it's finest.

Didn't Howard Schultz try some bullshit with people talking politics with Starbucks baristas or some nonsense like that. I think it lasted a week.
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