Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation?
Quote | Reply
Looking for a go-to workout for marathon training. I am 5 and a half weeks out from Indy Monumental marathon.

Also looking for race time predictions/recommendations

45 year old male
HM last weekend in 1:27:33
11 prior marathons - last one 2014 (3:09 in Boston)
very different training approach this year with less running, more cross training including HIIT


Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
4 weeks out I like a 20 miler with the middle 10 at a pace in between 1/2 and full pace, preferably on a rolling (hills) course. However, I don't think there is any go-to/magical workout.

I'll predict a 3:10 for you without knowing anything else.

But, how does your current mileage compare to when you ran 3:09 at Boston. What is you marathon PR? What does a typical recent week of training look like for you?
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
There is no such thing.

Especially at this point.

Even moreso having no knowledge of.your training.

https://markmcdermott.substack.com
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [marklemcd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm not looking for a workout to take 5 minutes off of my time. I'm just interested in hearing about tempo or interval workouts that people have found to be useful. I would certainly hope that we are still able to gain some fitness up until taper, otherwise, what is the point of training?

I have tried the 20-miler with 4-6 miles of tempo at the end but maybe the 10 of tempo in the middle is a better choice. I essentially did 13 miles of tempo+ 8 days ago in my HM so I wonder if its too soon to do 10.

I basically have 3 weeks left of training until the taper.
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'd say you're asking the wrong question. If you provided more detail of your running background and your recent training, you might get better feedback and suggestions on the right workouts (note plural) to do over the last month. That may make a difference. One workout, including the one I mentioned, will not.
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
McMillan projects you to a 3:04 low based on your time in last weekends HM.

If you are running less than when you ran 3:09, you probably won't hit your equivalent potential 3:04. Your style of training probably would more accurately predict your 5k pace (McMillan says 18:55) than your full mary.

Though you have years of fitness (presumably) from running 11 marathons, I would run lots and lots and lots of easy miles between now and monument. Easy as in like 9 min/ mi or slower, given your HM pace. Rather than looking for 1 key workout, I'd put an emphasis on putting in a lot of easy, safe miles over the next 4 weeks. I'd back off the HIIT down the stretch and mix in hill running and some track work to stay sharp (assuming no history of injury).

It feels like you are looking for a confidence booster workout you can nail and project out to 3:xx time. You already did that, it was your HM last weekend.
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
what was your weekly mileage from the last 14 weeks or so? a him time of high 1:27 would indicate something in the range of 3:05-3:10 but this needs to be backed up by some good weekly mileage base.

i'd back off of HIIT and do more easy miles.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [alex_korr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My mileage is really low. I haven't actually kept track. I have been running 3 times a week on average. I did Boston twice on high mileage (70+mpw average over 12 weeks prior to taper) and found myself over-trained. I then had some other health issues that dictated that I am unable to run that mileage even if I wanted to. As a result, I have been training with HIIT (crossfit, but don't tell anyone) and running either hard or long about half the times I do run. Have a 21 and a 22-miler in so far, one with a 7:00/mile last 4 miles. 22-23 miler planned this week.

I did a 55k trail race last fall and have 10,000+ miles of running over the last decade with a few IM thrown in there, so the legs have seen their fair share of distance.

I was asking partly because I am no longer running with a group and was looking to hear some fun or creative or beneficial workouts people have done for marathon prep. I tend to do either track repeats or tempo stuff when its left up to me to decide. This morning I did 3 x (800, 1600, 800) - 10 miles total with 6 miles of speed.
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [MadTownTRI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks. I agree that the HM was a good race predictor and confidence booster. I can only get away with so much mileage per week (see my other reply) but your point is well-taken. I have already dialed down the HIIT a bit and will really do so in the taper.
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I see.

As the other pointed out, the best workout for you is more easy miles.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did my best marathon on low mileage with some bike cross training thrown in for the endurance aspect. 5 weeks before I actually did a local marathon, figuring I would just run with the lead women as they usually did around a 2;50 or so for the win. That would have been about 10 minutes slower than my goal pace for 5 weeks later, but unfortunately the lead woman ran a 2;42 and of course I stuck to my plan on running with her.

Long story short, I bested that time by quite a bit and my original goal pace, so have to think that a good hard long run that far out was quite a benefit to my training plan.Not what I had planned, but obviously after the fact worked out very well. So long run at sub race pace and then descending last 10k at or above race pace...

Your results may vary as contents in box may settle...(-;
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [monty] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That seems well-beyond my recovery capabilities. I could see myself doing a full marathon 5 weeks ahead of time but only at a very leisurely pace. 10 minutes off my goal is not leisurely. Good job on that.
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ya like I said, it is not something I would have planned to do ahead of time but in the look back after it was all over, I can only conclude that it was a big + in my overall performance. Other than that race my longest run was 17 miles at race pace average and the rest were 10 miles or less at race pace or faster, mostly all on dirt and hills.

It was a very low mileage training plan, so I figured it all had to be quality at race pace to succeed. The longish bike once a week was for the 3 hour fat burning endurance aspect. I just looked back and I averaged 42 miles per week for 10 weeks for this attempt, so pretty much against the grain of what virtually everyone would tell you what to do, so definitely an N=1...
Quote Reply
Re: Stand Alone Marathon Workout - recommendation? [Crazy Legs] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Crazy Legs wrote:
My mileage is really low. I haven't actually kept track. I have been running 3 times a week on average. I did Boston twice on high mileage (70+mpw average over 12 weeks prior to taper) and found myself over-trained. I then had some other health issues that dictated that I am unable to run that mileage even if I wanted to. As a result, I have been training with HIIT (crossfit, but don't tell anyone) and running either hard or long about half the times I do run. Have a 21 and a 22-miler in so far, one with a 7:00/mile last 4 miles. 22-23 miler planned this week.

I did a 55k trail race last fall and have 10,000+ miles of running over the last decade with a few IM thrown in there, so the legs have seen their fair share of distance.

I was asking partly because I am no longer running with a group and was looking to hear some fun or creative or beneficial workouts people have done for marathon prep. I tend to do either track repeats or tempo stuff when its left up to me to decide. This morning I did 3 x (800, 1600, 800) - 10 miles total with 6 miles of speed.

Perhaps the most substantial marathon workout I will do is 20~21mi, with 3x5mi at marathon pace during. Warmup, then 3x5mi with 5min of jogging between. It's as much of a "workout" as it is a long run.. but all said and done you're looking at 20 miles at least. Very hard, take a few days very easy afterward. I do it four to six weeks out.

Another is 2x10km at slightly slower than MP, with 8min jog between. You're looking at 14~15mi, done as a mid-week workout. Again, very hard.

4x400, 10min tempo at MP, 4x400, 10min tempo, 4x400. Hard with the variation between 400 speed and a marathon pace. It's another that will leave you pretty tired, but feeling great once it's done.

It's those big workouts that are big confidence boosters, and for 26 miles, you need all the confidence you can get. All that said, you could run 20 miles at your goal pace in training, and have a completely terrible race. That's the marathon distance for you... but those are my favorite, big workouts to do in a marathon cycle.
Quote Reply