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How do we know they're kneeling?
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This came up on a sports talk radio show this morning. The idea that if everyone is supposed to show respect during the playing of the national anthem, how come people are watching and taking pictures of NFL players taking a knee? Shouldn't everyone be standing, saluting/right hand over their heart, and facing the flag while the national anthem is being played?

This took me back to my first few years of public school in the US (1959-1963). We'd get a box of milk in the afternoon, and the teachers would have us pray before we were allowed to drink it. (We'd also have church people come into the school once a week to give a Bible lesson. Didn't seem unusual to a bunch of mostly WASP kids back then, but the Supreme Court eventually put a stop to that.) Quite often after the prayer before we were allowed to drink the milk box, some kid would complain to the teacher, "Mrs. Jones, Suzy wasn't praying with everyone else!" Most of the time nothing would happen, but I remember one teacher who would point out, "Billy, how do you know that Suzy wasn't praying? Were you praying with your eyes open?"

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Camera men have a job to do. They are given a pass.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [BLeP] [ In reply to ]
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BLeP wrote:
Camera men have a job to do. They are given a pass.
Might be something like the pictures/movies of the fake moon landings?

Every game I've been to, there are plenty of people heading to and from the concession stands/restrooms during the National Anthem. I'm not sure what they're protesting, though.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Camera men have a job to do. They are given a pass.

Might be something like the pictures/movies of the fake moon landings?

Every game I've been to, there are plenty of people heading to and from the concession stands/restrooms during the National Anthem. I'm not sure what they're protesting, though.

Probably nothing. But I but a good chunk of those people going to the concession stands are really upset about black athletes taking a knee.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the NFL teams only start participating in the anthem only in the last 10 years or so??

IDK much ado about nothing I think.
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [macbain_tri] [ In reply to ]
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macbain_tri wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the NFL teams only start participating in the anthem only in the last 10 years or so??

IDK much ado about nothing I think.

It's fine if you decide not to be insulted by intentional disrespect that was meant to be disrespectful and insulting. However, when the NFL started participating in the anthem is not relevant to this issue.
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [macbain_tri] [ In reply to ]
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"Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't the NFL teams only start participating in the anthem only in the last 10 years or so?? "


Yes.


In a way, other than the fact that it pisses off so many people, I like this form of protest as to say, "Fuck you, I won't do what you tell me," regardless of what it statement it is inteneded to make about black justice.



I've always been vehemently opposed to forced patriotism. The pledge of allegiance is a great example.






Side note: I just got back from my visit to Pearl Harbor. I was quiet and respectful the entire time, didn't wear a hat, didn't take any selfies or pictures of me smiling in front of any monuments memorializing the fallen. I did that because I wanted to, not because anyone forced me to. And I also think that if you can't behave that way, then don't show up to the memorial. That's different than being told its part of your job to go and demonstrate your patriotism, in a job that has nothing to do with patriotism.



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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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That's too bad about the praying thing when you were a kid, but that's a poor analogy to this situation. This is not an issue of technicality. There is a premeditated intention to insult. This is not in dispute.

Now it's one thing to turn the other cheek in the face of an insult. That we can talk about. But to act like we're too stupid to recognize it? You're losing me there.
Last edited by: SH: Sep 25, 17 8:17
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Re: How do we know they're kneeling? [Alvin Tostig] [ In reply to ]
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Alvin Tostig wrote:
BLeP wrote:
Camera men have a job to do. They are given a pass.

Might be something like the pictures/movies of the fake moon landings?

Every game I've been to, there are plenty of people heading to and from the concession stands/restrooms during the National Anthem. I'm not sure what they're protesting, though.

They are protesting against long lines for beer.

The entire thing is ridiculous. Does Trump think the arm lockers should be fired? Or the players who stayed in the locker room? Or is the red line kneeling? Would it change anything in the players' minds (or society) if they didn't kneel to prevent being fired? Does Trump think the kneelers are protesting against a pretend problem? Kneeling during the anthem is not something I care anything about for whatever reason. At least the kneelers are trying to make a point about something they believe is an injustice, whereas the people at the concession stands are being intentionally oblivious.
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