Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [MidwestRoadie] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
MidwestRoadie wrote:
Correct. It's in the light of a Westernized evangelical interpretation of Paul's writing, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of god," where one interprets God as an actual divine thing/being/judge who created humans for the purpose of giving Him praise and glory. A certain standard being established by that god must be adhered to and held up, with anyone falling short of that being in peril of damnation, with all offenses large and small being judged alike. But, wait, there's more! That god loves us so much that we're offered a chance at redemption, a chance at redemption that entails killing someone so we can be redeemed...if we accept a contract/covenant agreement that we'll call that God by a certain name, make a certain pledge, and then run from our transgressions & run back to that god in our debased guilt when we again transgress.

And my stance on that -- as well as many, many others who are Christians but sick of that kind of stance -- is that it's a terrible form of religion, a type of faith that is full of words and lacking substance and transformative power. It doesn't speak for what's moral, it speaks for the boundaries of that religion's club rules.



Sanuk wrote:
If you want to imagine that your god is one who conflates the taking of a sheet of paper or a pen (as your linked "test" asserts) with material theft, have at it.

The use of the paper or pen is an example to show that everyone has stolen something. They could say people have stolen time from your employer if you don't work every minute or any number of examples. I don't think it's meant as anything other than an example.

I'd love to hear your Christian take on Rev 20/21/22. Not being malicious here. Genuinely curious. Either it's God's word or it's not. I get your point that "it's a terrible form of religion" but that doesn't make it any less true.

Back to the topic at hand, whether you believe Jesus was fact or fiction, either way he would likely be classified as good. His response? "Why do you call me good? No one is good - except God alone."
Quote Reply
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [veganerd] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
veganerd wrote:
How do you judge your divine dictate as good? Skip the circular argument please.

I never said He was good. I simply said He alone has authority to declare what is good.

Genesis 1&2 He declares what is good. Genesis 3 mankind attempts to declare something good. You likely know the rest of the story. The only circular reference is that we've been attempting to declare what is good, overstepping our authority, ever since the garden.
Quote Reply
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm guessing this discussion has taken a turn the OP did not intend. Sorry for derailing. Feel free to PM me if you would like.

So do you consider yourself a good person?

My answer is no
Last edited by: wcb: Sep 18, 17 12:36
Quote Reply
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [wcb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wcb wrote:
veganerd wrote:
How do you judge your divine dictate as good? Skip the circular argument please.

I never said He was good. I simply said He alone has authority to declare what is good.

Genesis 1&2 He declares what is good. Genesis 3 mankind attempts to declare something good. You likely know the rest of the story. The only circular reference is that we've been attempting to declare what is good, overstepping our authority, ever since the garden.


Thats divine dictate, as i mentioned. "Whatever i say is good is good" its nonsense.

How do you know what he says is good, is actually good?

who's smarter than you're? i'm!
Quote Reply
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [wcb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wcb wrote:
I'd love to hear your Christian take on Rev 20/21/22. Not being malicious here. Genuinely curious. Either it's God's word or it's not. I get your point that "it's a terrible form of religion" but that doesn't make it any less true.


A couple of things here...
  • If "God's word" is something written down, we don't have a clue what that really is. Why? Because let's take the New Testament for example -- there are over 5300 NT manuscripts, none of which are complete, with more discrepancies, errors, and inconsistencies between them than exists words in the entire NT; it's fact that many of those were on purpose, either to fulfill religious preferences or political preferences. Until one can work with an unadulterated manuscript, interpret it based on how the language was used at the time, and interpret it based on the audience it was spoken to, then take that document and magnify its meaning to what a modern audience would hear from the same message, it's pretty hard to argue that the Bible is "God's word" and leave it at that as something to just take as it is without a lot of question and wrestling. In my opinion, it's both haughty and lazy to do so.
  • "True" is a word that has a few different meanings. We mostly use it in an empirical sense -- something that can be objectively proven over and over with like results, like something mathematical. The Bible isn't that. Genesis is not a scientific or historical account of things.
  • Revelation was a political treatise critiquing the Roman government and their imperial practices, not some end-of-all-time, demise of the earth prediction. We're not going to get anywhere in that discussion without that understanding.
wcb wrote:
Back to the topic at hand, whether you believe Jesus was fact or fiction, either way he would likely be classified as good. His response? "Why do you call me good? No one is good - except God alone."



And he's also said to have said that he and the father are one and also said that the kingdom of God is inside each one of us, which wouldn't seem to make sense or be consistent in your context here of making a separation between Jesus & God as separate entities and humans and God as separate entities. There must be more to things than the binary view of "God is good, humans are bad and in need of God to clean them up," much more to things than that. But that binary view is easy, comfortable for a lot of people, and makes it so one doesn't have to do much thinking. I get that, but it doesn't make it true empirically. It only makes it true for how you want to conduct your worldview, but that doesn't mean that God, if there is even a god that's an actual thing or being, set things up that way.
Quote Reply
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [wcb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
And my stance on that -- as well as many, many others who are Christians but sick of that kind of stance -- is that it's a terrible form of religion, a type of faith that is full of words and lacking substance and transformative power. It doesn't speak for what's moral, it speaks for the boundaries of that religion's club rules.

Well said.
Quote Reply
Re: Do You Consider Yourself a 'Good Person'? [JD21] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Funny as when I am asked that question I always think, compared to who, mother Teresa?

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Quote Reply

Prev Next