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long course and lose of speed
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surfNJmatt
Sep 15, 17 14:42
Post #1 of 9 (1846 views)
I have never been the fastest guy but always considered myself fast for my size (6'1 190). I was always able to run around a 21 minute 5k.

over the last 3 years i have just been training for ironman and have gotten wayyyyyyy slower. Actually got challenged to a 50 yard dash by an overweight pack a day smoking friend and I got smoked!!


That said I have never been able to get faster at long course where I did take a year in between my ironman and focus on short course. Desert Dude wrote ma a plan and I was able to get fast and compete again.


My question is are some body types just not cut out to be fast at long course? Has anyone else seen a decline in speed from training to go long
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Re: long course and lose of speed [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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jonnyo
Sep 15, 17 15:07
Post #2 of 9 (1818 views)
6'1 190 definitly make it harder to be competitive at long distance. half ironman and ironman are race of resilience and weight play a big factor

but overall, everyone lose speed when training for long distance. one way to counter this is to design the season around short course racing and finish the season with a late ironman. you get much better change at getting faster this way vs doing a long distance/ironman race early in the season and then doing a bunch of shorter races
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Re: long course and lose of speed [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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xcchampion11
Sep 15, 17 18:59
Post #3 of 9 (1720 views)
former high school and college runner training for my first ironman in a few weeks. Alot of emphasis on high milage and tempos has meant a loss of 5k speed for me as well. I'm helping out a local high school XC team this fall and we ran a 5k scrimmage this past weekend and man did I feel the loss of speed as well. It comes with the long distance. As previously mentioned, I'd throw some 200s-400s in your workouts. Those help to keep the leg turn over going. I did some longish tempos this past week and threw 200s in at the end just to help with the drop of true speed. I feel you pain man but it comes with the distance. Good luck
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Re: long course and lose of speed [xcchampion11] [ In reply to ]
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RLB
Sep 15, 17 23:08
Post #4 of 9 (1654 views)
there is an old phrase which is very true 'use it or loose it'. you still need some faster work in yor training. Strides or short Hill sprintschool on the bike and run a some fast 15-25m efforts in the pool will do the trick. Sprinkle these in to warm ups or aerobic sessions where you are feeling fresher rather than in a recover your session. Coupledo with a weekly does of FT work you'll be good for most distances depending on the length of you longest sessionserving.
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Re: long course and lose of speed [jonnyo] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun
Sep 16, 17 4:23
Post #5 of 9 (1563 views)
jonnyo wrote:
6'1 190 definitly make it harder to be competitive at long distance. half ironman and ironman are race of resilience and weight play a big factor

but overall, everyone lose speed when training for long distance. one way to counter this is to design the season around short course racing and finish the season with a late ironman. you get much better change at getting faster this way vs doing a long distance/ironman race early in the season and then doing a bunch of shorter races

Interesting, not that I designed my season that way, but that is what I did. 100% Olympic distance training. Zero LC training. Raced lots of short stuff, tri's, du's, and Aquathlons. Ended season with LC worlds, which is a 3/4 IM distance, and had a great run and for me, a great race. And I had NONE of the LC stuff I cannot stand
like long bikes or long runs :) I was just amazed at how the folks who had trained for the LC race were so so slow on the run. And I had already raced 3 events before during the week. Too many just do not want to hurt which is what happens with short course racing. For most, the IM is just a 17 hour picnic.
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Re: long course and lose of speed [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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salmonsteve
Sep 16, 17 5:10
Post #6 of 9 (1526 views)
h2ofun wrote:
jonnyo wrote:
6'1 190 definitly make it harder to be competitive at long distance. half ironman and ironman are race of resilience and weight play a big factor

but overall, everyone lose speed when training for long distance. one way to counter this is to design the season around short course racing and finish the season with a late ironman. you get much better change at getting faster this way vs doing a long distance/ironman race early in the season and then doing a bunch of shorter races


Interesting, not that I designed my season that way, but that is what I did. 100% Olympic distance training. Zero LC training. Raced lots of short stuff, tri's, du's, and Aquathlons. Ended season with LC worlds, which is a 3/4 IM distance, and had a great run and for me, a great race. And I had NONE of the LC stuff I cannot stand
like long bikes or long runs :) I was just amazed at how the folks who had trained for the LC race were so so slow on the run. And I had already raced 3 events before during the week. Too many just do not want to hurt which is what happens with short course racing. For most, the IM is just a 17 hour picnic.



Well done on finally sorting that signature out. Hopefully a few others on this post will follow your lead and correct their posts.
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Last edited by: salmonsteve: Sep 16, 17 5:11
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Re: long course and lose of speed [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist
Sep 16, 17 8:12
Post #7 of 9 (1450 views)
Maybe I'm an outlier, but I set my sprint and olympic run PB's while training for my first ironman after 10 years of sticking to the shorter races. My 5K pace was 10 sec/mi faster (same course, bike effort was very similar) and my 10k 36 sec/mi faster than my previous PB (different course, but very similar profile). The 5k was actually only ~15 sec/mi slower than my best open 5k. This despite going for an 85 mile ride the day before the race.

That said, there is no way in heck I could get anywhere close to running the 400 to 1500/1600m times I was running in high school and college.
Matt
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Re: long course and lose of speed [RLB] [ In reply to ]
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HuffNPuff
Sep 16, 17 9:19
Post #8 of 9 (1411 views)
Dave, didn't you say in another thread that you are running 55 mpw? Total volume is more important than any one long run. For sure, when it comes to running you are doing a lot more than 95+% of long course age group athletes. I struggle to find the time for 30 mpw.
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Re: long course and lose of speed [surfNJmatt] [ In reply to ]
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trimac2
Sep 16, 17 9:48
Post #9 of 9 (1385 views)
Yes IM training will make you slow if you only do long slow stuff.

It can't hurt to run fast during IM training but you have to be careful how you implement this in your training plan. And there is no reason why you can't be fast at 6'1" 190lbs. Sure it's easier if your 130-140lbs but IM rewards bigger athletes compared to stand alone running races.
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