I would give my... errr... shoulders? for his shoulders.
Front view

The positional game is interesting. Last season I would have been able to name pretty much all CTT riders at <.190 and could count those <.180 on one hand, but this year there's a whole lot of <.180 going on and if you're not ~.190 then you'd better be putting out monster power to be competitive. I think that the (relatively) inexpensive testing available by proper experts plays a large part, but even then lots of people who don't test have benefited by simply adopting what works for others (fast skinsuits, TripSockz, Hed Jet 9+, Corsa Speeds, etc.).

I would postulate that frontal area is even less than half the equation given the factors at which things change when you reduce one or the other....

Smaller? Great, factor of 2 at best. More air foily? Winner, factor of 10 if lucky.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

My understanding is that a human is best described as a "bluff body". Airfoils are great and as Jordan Rapp was pointing out there is like a factor of 30 difference between the Cd of a flat plate and a decent airfoil, but the human body will never be an airfoil.

my heuristic is that if i can't see your chin from a side shot you're not giving much if anything up in the head position department. No wind tunnels or power meters needed for that one.

ETA: furthermore, reaching out a bit beyond what is "comfortable" can narrow shoulders non-linearly. humanipers, can measure shoulder width - give it a try.

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Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
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I've tested quite a few folks at extended reach in wind tunnels. your comment, as i interpret it, is inconsistent with my experience.

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Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
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Years ago you posted a short video showing how you could use a mirror to determine how shoulder width/frontal area changes as a function of reach. I was just trying that experiment and there is definitely a point where I see a minimum shoulder width. It is somewhere between the Slowtwitch approved position and the Superman. .... Now I just need to build some Man-a-pers.

I've posted a couple videos over the years that I'm remembering. the first was one that tried to emphasize that shoulder width really isn't a function of forearm angle/hand position, but rather shrugging, or, more relevant to this thread enabling an inactive/default shrug:

http://www.biketechreview.com/images/the_shrug.wmv

the other is one about how to hold your head:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FG5pYN43oAw

maybe one of those were what you were thinking of?

...also, keep in mind that minimizing shoulder width can also likely be a function of elbow pad width - so make sure any experimentation investigates this interaction. again, no need for wind tunnels or power meters. mirrors, frontal area, and humanipers are good tools for this exploratory experimentation.

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Kraig Willett
http://www.biketechreview.com - check out our reduced report pricing
=================

Yes. It gets a lot better than this position.

I mean...without wasting everyone's time. Your hips are super closed and your handling will blow like a chubby white girl at the tanning bed.

So, please don't listen to the BS that acts like this is ok.

.22 at zero yaw..... 6'2" 180lbs w/ Ironman storage options

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

It doesn't have to be a flat plate either.

If someone is .2 they're way more airfoil (.1) than flat plate (1.5).

The real question is not airfoil, it's *blimp*

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Any updates on your experiment? Are you going to show us what the bike looks like?

You're biggest loss is the helmet and shoes....very poor

Its not ready yet. Im wanting to get it finished and take it to the A&M wind tunnel this winter just for fun to have some data on it and the position....just cuz. Ill definitely do a full write up with lots of pictures when Im finished. I just need a paint theme......

I'll concede the shoes, but this helmet tested fastest for me.

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Hard to tell from the picture, but it looks like you don't have a BTA bottle? Do you race without one?

Also is that a modified torhan VR on the BB mounted backwards?

Looks even faster than 0.22!

I do race with a BTA bottle and if it were in it would be totally hidden.

That is a modified specialized fuel cell attached with gorilla tape

I’ll get to your PM in a bit, have a bike fit right now

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

tell me more about the a&m wind tunnel. How do you get in there and are they well versed in testing bikes w/ riders.

I have no idea currently. 10 years ago when I was in school I was a bike model in the tunnel to demonstrate position changes for one of john cobbs coaching seminars. They knew their stuff (come on, its A&M). I haven't contacted them, but I imagine they still rent out tunnel time.

Well it is going to be a funky looking bike, and Bootsy Collis just released a new album, so maybe follow Bootsy's example and do a glitter yellow and/or purple with gold stars.

it will be ridiculous. Dont doubt that

Good point. ERO it is for me.

I hear you. prob do that instead. I just like Aggieland.

No wouldnt work. i want info at yaw and bike alone