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Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study
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http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...sion-study-with.html

http://www.flocycling.com/...ng_Tension_Study.pdf

This study was a big success. It has allowed us to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the following claims are true.

  • - Casing tension will rise if tire pressure increases.
  • - A linear relationship between tire pressure and casing tension exists.
  • - Casing tension will rise if tire size increases and tire pressure remains constant.
  • - Casing tension will rise if rim width increases and tire pressure remains constant.


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Last edited by: BryanD: Sep 8, 17 10:53
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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While I would have assumed that the results were what they were, I am surprised at the magnitude of difference between tire and rim widths.

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The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Isn't this basically what we would expect given the rules for thin-walled pressure vessels?

Wish this was my senior year project back in univesity instead of "I know that test doesn't work for measuring a dynamic coefficient, but I want you to run it until it does...."
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Copy/Paste of my comment on their FB page:

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Glad you guys are finally studying casing tension. I'm feeling a bit smug over here running a 22mm Attack up front while the trend is to run bulbous 25mm GP TTs and 25-28mm GP4000s. I've said for a while that the current designs of rolling resistance studies are unfairly biased in favor of wider tires. I suspect what you'll find is that construction and compound dominate CRR as the tire is basically acting like a spring. Accordingly, 23, 25, and 28mm tires with identical construction (such as the GP4000S II) should have nearly identical CRR with the nod going to the 23 for all-out speed. The comfort argument then becomes (paraphrasing TomA here) "how far below my optimum PSI do I want to run and what size tire do I need to run in order to not pinch flat?" In other words, if my optimum PSI for rolling resistance purposes on a 23mm tire is 100psi (let's say 90psi and 80psi respectively for 25mm/28mm) but I'm about to ride on really rough roads where I'd like to go 15% below my optimum psi. On a 23mm the resulting 85psi might put me in pinch flat territory whereas I should be safer with 68psi on a 28mm as the larger tire will provide more room in absolute terms for deflection. That's not to say narrower is always better, however. Tires work with rims and rims work with frames. The next logical step is to optimize an entire bike from the tire back.
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:
http://flocycling.blogspot.com/...sion-study-with.html

http://www.flocycling.com/...ng_Tension_Study.pdf

This study was a big success. It has allowed us to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the following claims are true.

  • - Casing tension will rise if tire pressure increases.
  • - A linear relationship between tire pressure and casing tension exists.
  • - Casing tension will rise if tire size increases and tire pressure remains constant.
  • - Casing tension will rise if rim width increases and tire pressure remains constant.


"Claims" aka "laws of physics"
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [Traket92x] [ In reply to ]
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Traket92x wrote:
Isn't this basically what we would expect given the rules for thin-walled pressure vessels?

Wish this was my senior year project back in univesity instead of "I know that test doesn't work for measuring a dynamic coefficient, but I want you to run it until it does...."

Yes. It shouldn't be too difficult for them to formulate a matrix for what the optimum PSI is for a given load on a given tire on one of their wheels. It won't be too much work to then take resulting CRR and aero inputs to come up with an "optimum" tire setup for a given rider.
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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BryanD wrote:

This study was a big success. It has allowed us to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the following claims are true.

  • - Casing tension will rise if tire pressure increases.
  • - A linear relationship between tire pressure and casing tension exists.
  • - Casing tension will rise if tire size increases and tire pressure remains constant.
  • - Casing tension will rise if rim width increases and tire pressure remains constant.

So does this mean you are going to retract your claim that people should ride 25 mm tires over 23 mm ones since your test methods for Crr in the past was flawed where you put 120 PSI into every tire regardless of size? Looks like most of the Crr benefit you supposedly saw from going to the 25 mm was because you way over pressurized them giving them much higher casing tension.
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hybridlete wrote:
BryanD wrote:


This study was a big success. It has allowed us to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the following claims are true.

  • - Casing tension will rise if tire pressure increases.
  • - A linear relationship between tire pressure and casing tension exists.
  • - Casing tension will rise if tire size increases and tire pressure remains constant.
  • - Casing tension will rise if rim width increases and tire pressure remains constant.


So does this mean you are going to retract your claim that people should ride 25 mm tires over 23 mm ones since your test methods for Crr in the past was flawed where you put 120 PSI into every tire regardless of size? Looks like most of the Crr benefit you supposedly saw from going to the 25 mm was because you way over pressurized them giving them much higher casing tension.

Until we have a final answer, we'll keep our suggestions the same... simply because we do not know. We don't know where the break even points are at the current time but we hope to learn more about that soon.


Chris Thornham
Co-Founder And Previous Owner Of FLO Cycling
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Re: Flo Cycling Tire Casting Tension Study [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
It has allowed us to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the following claims are true.


Eh? Those "claims" have been well-known for decades.

Looks like an amusing undergraduate project. By the end of the first page I was wondering why they didn't resort to direct measurement of the casing. It was mildly gratifying to see that they worked around to it by Page 4.

The most interesting conclusion was "Based on the presented study, the most accurate absolute strain values are determined from the caliper measurements." In other words, you can do this at home.
Last edited by: eb: Sep 10, 17 9:54
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