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Riding uphill instead of riding indoors
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I have moved to a location where i cam finally ride outside with minimal traffic.

My only options out the front door are to go uphill from 250m to 1000+ or to descend to sea level.

There is no "flat" riding that would not involve being in an urban area with traffic, lights and all the other stuff that accompanies it.

I can do a loop of 60k with 1k meters of climbing (thats approximately 40 miles and 3000 feet in old money ;)). 75% of the ride is going up / flat and 15-25% coming down.

Whats the best way to take advantage of the terrain. Ride uphill and vary intensity, cadence? and gearing.

One hour on the trainer was always very productive. I would think one hour riding uphill could be equally productive the question is how best to take advantage of it.
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion, as a general rule, riding up hills beats both flat riding and the trainer hands down.

My speed on the bike improved dramatically this season (both on hills and on the flat) and I put that down to two things.
  • Consistency
  • Riding up lots and lots of hills

I signed up for the Marmotte des Alpes when entries opened in November 2016. The race is at the start of July and I was worried about how I'd cope with the event so it kept me motivated on the bike for the entire 2016-2017 off season. I did consistent FTP building work (typically 2 sessions of 60-80mins per week) and a longer ride each weekend. When weather allowed I headed for the mountains at the weekend even in winter. From February to June I was in the mountains nearly every weekend and started going up every steep gradient I could find. I spent maybe 70% of my time training outdoors going up gradients between 5% and 15%. The other 30% of my time was spent descending so I could climb them again or riding from one climb to another nearby! I came to relish a good climb. And I got a lot stronger. I think long climbs also help a lot with your technique. My pedal stroke has certainly smoothed out a lot too. Nothing I consciously worked on, stomping on the pedals just starts feeling wrong when you're doing lots of climbing.

My midweek FTP 60-80min sessions were mostly on the trainer simply because I'm in an urban area where traffic and junctions are too much of an interruption and distraction for working hard. It's about a 25 minute drive to good flat roads, 35mins to some smaller climbs and 50-60mins to my preferred bigger climbs described below. When the evenings got longer and the weather improved a little in spring and summer I started doing some of the midweek sessions outdoors as well. But driving to a location to ride in the dark during winter was not appealing. When I did get outdoors mid week I either did hill reps at the smaller hills on the road bike or 15-20minute intervals on the tri bike on flatter terrain. I saved the bigger hills for the weekend long rides. I did all my trainer sessions on the tri bike and mountain sessions on the road bike.

For the shorter rides I was climbing mostly at threshold or VO2max effort (based on perceived effort or HR, I don't own a power meter and only use power via virtual power on Zwift). My longer weekend rides ranged from 2.5hrs in winter to a peak of about 4-5hrs in summer. On the longer rides I probably spent most of my time at endurance or tempo pace. I often cranked up the effort for the last climb of the day especially if I was feeling strong. I have a few climbs to choose from but my favorites are:
  • 10km climb that averages about 6.5%. It starts easy and cranks up to 11%-12% after 3km, then backs off before increasing to a consistent 8-9% for the last 3km.
  • A stretch of road with back to back climbs of 4.5km and 3.5km in one direction and 3km and 3.5km in the other. The 4.5km is a bit less steep, maybe 6.5% average but the others are all about 8-9% average gradient. The 3km one has a section that ramps up to about 15% while the others are both fairly consistent 7-10% gradients. So that's 4 good climbs. You descend from the first and you're onto the second immediately. I've often done an out and back route on that road to clock up well over 1000m of climbing in 4 climbs covering only 30km. This stretch of road is only a few km from the 10km described above so I can combine these in one ride if I like.

If you fear climbs, do more of them. You'll learn to love them!
Last edited by: Ai_1: Sep 7, 17 2:45
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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the down hill time in general is "wasted" (you produce 0 watts), unless you're aiming to improve your riding skills; so I'd rather spend most of the time on the trainer (unless you have lots of time to "waste")
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]
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In a downhill after climbing relaxing, breathing, spinning, drop bar position and full speed handling is on ..

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the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [jollyroger88] [ In reply to ]
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jollyroger88 wrote:
the down hill time in general is "wasted" (you produce 0 watts), unless you're aiming to improve your riding skills; so I'd rather spend most of the time on the trainer (unless you have lots of time to "waste")

You always coast down hills? You can, but no-one is forcing you to do that.
I often pedal all, or almost all the way down the long climb I mentioned in the post above. Unless there's a stiff tailwind, I can sit up and pedal hard all the way down - if I want to. I'll be doing maybe 60-70km/h for most of it if I keep my HR around threshold. On very steep gradients above 10% and/or if the road has a lot of turns or poor surface you may have to hold back a bit but in general you can at least pedal easy and usually pedal hard on downhills.

Even if the terrain means you can't do too much on the downhill, that's not a big deal. I generally treat hills as intervals on short rides anyway. Work hard on the way up. Recover on the way down. It's not wasted time. The descent takes considerably less time anyway so they're not even likely to be generous recoveries!

If you specifically want to do a 90minute sweetspot session and only have a steep 20 minute hill with lots of sharp bends and a poor surface then it's not a great place to do that workout. Otherwise, what's the problem? Regardless, I'd argue that the sweetspot is much less effective and less enjoyable and satisfying too. I'd much sooner do 3x20min hill repeats (or 4x20min if I had time) and 4-5min recoveries. There are arguments I agree with for using the trainer to make the best use of time, but yours isn't one of them. Yes, a trainer can make sense if you live in an urban areas with lots of traffic and junctions where it's impossible to ride with any consistency or predictability and concentrate on what you're doing. Yes, a trainer can make sense if you would have to spend a chunk of time travelling to good roads to do your session. No, a trainer is not superior to riding on climbs because "down hill time in general is wasted".

It depends on the climbs you have available, but very short climbs (3-6mins) are great for VO2max sessions. Medium climbs (10-25mins) are great for threshold intervals or can be used for virtually any level of effort if the gradient is not extreme and the surface is good. Long climbs (25mins+) are great for whatever you like, especially long tempo sessions with some variation in effort built in. Variation is good in my book. Physical resilience rarely comes from doing exactly the same thing again and again. Mix it up a bit....and if you have hills, ride them.
Last edited by: Ai_1: Sep 7, 17 3:36
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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In my experience, riding outside and climbing in particular, is vastly superior to the trainer.

I was riding indoors almost exclusively then took about 6 months off and moved to a place with much better riding. When I started riding again outdoors, I did long, slow rides and prioritized weight loss over regaining power. I began doing some short hill intervals but didn't expect any major gains as I was losing 2 lbs/week. Much to my surprise, I regained most of my power after 4 months of that training.

When I was riding indoors (on a VeloTron), I was doing lots of SST and seeing huge TSS numbers. Two years of this was only as effective as 4 months of outdoor riding not even focused on building fitness.
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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I think 80-90% cyclist wants to ride in the mountain area. When I was started to riding, my dream is riding on the hill. Several times I ride on the trail, but My dream is to ride on the hill, where no body ride yet. I have bought expensive MTB for practice.


You may laugh at me. but believe me, this is my dream. I want to create history as a cyclist. My mother encourages me every time. She believes I will able to fulfill my dream. I don't care about what people think about me. Keep me in your prayer.
Last edited by: madonarosy: Sep 7, 17 10:29
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Re: Riding uphill instead of riding indoors [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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It's basically what I'm doing on weekdays (cyclist only).

Traffic between home and work means I have to leave early in the AM, and I usually hang out in town to let traffic die down before going home. So I don't have much time at home to ride the trainer even if I wanted to.

The good news for me is that near my office is a 4.5 mile climb averaging 6% with very little car traffic and no stops. So I'll ride there 3-4x per week. 2x per week I do harder workouts...sometimes short intervals, and sometimes just going up the climb a couple of times (25-28' depending how hard) at a hard tempo. Other times I'll just spin up in my easy gear at a Z2ish effort.

The only thing I can't do on this hill is a sustained 30+ minute hard effort, which I don't really need for weekday workouts anyway.
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