As I said adjust to your ability.
The last 30mins needs to be near your goal pace. Add 15sec /km from there to pace guidelines.

3:30 marathon = 5min/km
5:45 /km first 30mins
5:30/km 2nd
5:15/km 3rd
5min last

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Andrew Garwood
http://www.2xu.com
http://www.newtonrunning.com
http://www.ascendsport.com.au

Racepace always feels awful before a race, that's how it's supposed to be!
To the OP, this isn't some magic workout, I can do 10x800 at under 2:40, but I can't run a 2:40 marathon. Keep calm, and run more!

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

I would have to agree as well. A friend is training for marathon and I tagged along for his 800 yasso workout. It seems like it's a bit too fast as you get closer to 3 hour mark or like above below it. I only do 800s for 10k races...seems way too short to give you any sortof benefit even if you did 5 MILES of them. Perhaps there all about helping with efficiency but at the pace, I would bet most people have no where near the form in the last half of them to increase their run efficiency.

Just my 2 cents...

See, it's not just me!!!

I reiterate: Bart Yasso is a chump [and a hack, besides]

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"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

if you are getting the other workouts at their prescribed pace, then i wouldn't worry about it. As you mentioned later, it was likely just an off day. That happens. It dos help to be a bit rested going into a tougher workout.

My wife is training for the Hudson-Mohawk race on Oct 8 and is also hoping for sub-3:30. I do some of her training runs with, when i can keep up. We did 8x800 a couple of weeks ago, all were 3:25-3:28. Recovery was jogging 400m in 3:28-3:30. We plan a 10x800 set on Tuesday of next week. Usually, she will do her long run on Sunday, but this weekend, she will run long on Saturday. She is doing 34-36 km as a progression run, something like 16k easy, 12k moderate, last 6-8 km at marathon pace. This is a pretty hard effort so doing it Saturday leaves more recovery time until Tuesday. Maybe the nx800 workouts are not for everyone, but I think they are helping her.

The only time that used the Yasso 800s in my own marathon preparation, was in 2002, training for Philadelphia. I did 10x800 in 2:53-2:54, and did the race in 2:54:48, with a pretty fair negative split. And i didn't do the progression 4x800, ..., 10x800. Coach just had me go out and do the 10x800 the one time.

There are number of other posters with complete disdain for the Yasso 800s. I'll agree with them that the 800s are not the only or the best or the most important workout for marathon training, but I do think they are a useful part.

All of of this is, of course, only my opinion. I am not a coach.

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run well, run happy
george

Just to be correct, if you do the full yasso workout, you will get 5 miles of "fast running". For me total workout distance would be around 14k but that would be less if you do a walk recovery instead of jog.

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Terrible Tuesday’s Triathlon

Maybe Yasso's 10x800 doesn't work for you for determining a target marathon pace (which is the whole point of the workout). But there may be some validity in applying it for determining marathon pace for people who are not you—or the very few others who responded here. There may be more validity to Yasso 800s—basically field testing—than plugging a number into a web site, and getting a formula as a pacing guideline.

Also, without exception: Bart is one of the nicest people I have ever had the pleasure of working with, and I'm calling bullshit on you for trashing his character. And I'd wager that he knows more about running than the collective of fools here.

ETA: Yasso 800s FAQs which answer purpose, protocol, etc.

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no sponsors | no races | nothing to see here

As someone noted above, Yassos can be more indicative of what you *can't* do, more than a foolproof measuring stick for your marathon readiness. It concerns me that you couldn't finish more than 3 repeats at a 7:00mm without blowing yourself out at this point in your training. Try again and see where you are, but if you still can't it may be appropriate to re-evaluate where you are.

Personally, I think that regularly running miles at Goal Marathon Pace is far more indicative of potential success (and at about 8 weeks before marathon, I actually switch to Hanson's style long mile repeats). So much has to do with how you're training, not just that you're hitting the correct marks in your training plan. Does that make sense?

+1

it's worth pointing out that Bart did not name the Yasso 800s, his friend Amby Burfoot did - see link in my previous post. Yasso 800s are what Bart does (or did before his medical problems), not what he recommends - he's never attempted to profit from them or proselytize. They are a fairly accurate guide to capability but not necessarily a great workout to prepare for a marathon, as your FAQ points out..

So lay off Bart - he's one of the good guys..

I couldn't help but notice that no one answered your question.

If you can't finish a hard workout don't stress. Do one of two things that day 1) just go for a medium long to long run all easy, or 2) go home and rest. It is nice to have a coach make the choice for you. My guess is you don't have that so pick #2. If you are close to the pace and just smashed maybe #1. If 3:50 feels flat out then #2. While coaching my wife in 2007 to 7th in the Boston marathon I think we used #1. In 2008 for the trials we over did it a bit and she couldn't run goal MP + 30 seconds/mi for even 400m. I remember telling her go home. The plan was for 22 miles that day, most of it fast. She got in about 3. She was 7th in that race too. Don't stress and go with the flow.

Next time you do the workout and attempt 5-6 x 800 consider starting a little slow and finish at 3:30. Say 3:38, 3:36, 3:34, 3:32, 3:30, bonus #6 all out. On the rest do what feels good to you. Consider a slow 400 in 2:30-2:40 not just standing. Then next time you do the workout try and do the rest in 2:20-2:30.

Have fun

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Ed Alyanak

So how did it end up?

I am 5 weeks out from my marathon and trying to dial in a race pace.

My Garmin race predictor is way to fast. 3:07
Did Yasso 800's this morning first couple at 3:30 and the next 8 @ 3:25 with about 2 minute rest between. Had an old railroad trail measured out with GPS and wheel. Spot on with my Garmin.

Felt like I was able to maintain good form and was not struggling.

Did 23 miles 5 days prior at about 3:50 marathon pace with plenty of short water/aid stops.

Thinking of 8:00/mile pace to start out.

Thoughts?

Using Yasso 800s to predict marathon time is like using hand size to predict height -- there is probably a correlation for good physical reasons, but you should use other information to make your prediction if at all possible.

Any recent long races? Any long runs with progression to something near what you think of as marathon effort (sustainable for ~3.5 hours)?

An oddity is that Yasso 800s get harder as you get to be a stronger distance racer, because your marathon times come down faster in a relative sense than your short-distance races do (with marathon experience and years of high mileage). Yasso 800s are about 14% faster than their corresponding marathon pace. If you follow Riegel's formula of a 4% speed increase per halving of distance, then this ends up equating to the pace you'd race 2.5 miles at -- which makes the Yasso workout really hard. Most people don't have the aerobic running base and muscle mix and fuel storage capacity to have their pace drop by only 4% from half-marathon distance up to the marathon -- and in fact the modal decrease in speed is more like 11% going from half-marathon to marathon (https://www.theguardian.com/...thon-running-success). This means Yasso 800s might be more like your 10k pace or even slower for an average marathoner, which would make them feel a lot easier. So the less your speed decreases as racing distance rises, more dissimilar to marathon racing Yasso 800s are in terms of energy system demand, and the worse of an indicator workout they become. To echo an earlier commenter, I might be shooting for a 2:40 marathon this fall, but there's no way in hell I'll use a 8x800 workout at 5:20/mile as a metric of whether I'm in shape for that, I'll be seeing whether 2x4 mile at 6:00/mile feels doable in the second half of a 20-mile run.

See also http://www.kemibe.com/training.htm

There is nothing special about Yasso's 800.
NOTHING

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Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
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