just going above and beyond.
not their fault the other teams were too stupid to find their opponents achilles heel.

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ΜΟΛΩΝ-ΛΑΒΕ
we're doomed

"Bosox Stealing Signs"

This reminds me of a story that an elderly immigrant once told me: he thought he spoke English fairly well, having lived in England and Singapore for some time before moving to the States in the late 50s. Upon arrival in San Francisco, he picked up a newspaper and was utterly befuddled to read a headline in the Sports section:

BUMS DIE IN RHUBARB.

Hahahahahaha! That's awesome!

I miss the old sports writers of yore. That is one seriously classic sports headline. :-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Thanks, Bill Belichick. I mean, "Madduck." ;-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Sign stealing has been a part of baseball for years (Google Bobby Thomson's "Shot Heard Round the World" in 1951, the Giants had a signaling mechanism in the scoreboard at the Polo Grounds so he knew exactly what pitch was coming) and the practice itself is not illegal, but MLB rules strictly prohibit the use of technology in doing it. Every team has video monitors in the dugouts for replay challenges, as well as a technician in the clubhouse where hitters can go in between innings to breakdown clips of their last at-bat. Teams have to get creative about it, but the Red Sox were dumb enough to do it in a visible way where they got caught.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

As someone that doesn't follow baseball, I'm interested to know where this behavior ranks on the outrage meter, excluding any team-specific bias. Is this a 1 (nothing to see here)? Is it a 10 (they should be burned at the stake)? Something in between?

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

I always laugh when teams cry that the other team is stealing their signs. Um, ok. So make better signs.

The whole thing is over blown anyway, a former major leaguer was on the radio yesterday saying that many of the major leaguers don't bother looking at the signs being given. They say that they don't have time to process that and get ready for the pitch/process the pitch.

Then again he also said that Roberto Alomar was quite good at reading pitchers just while sitting in the dugout. Once he figured a pitcher out he'd call out what the pitch was going to be just by watching the pitcher.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Stealing signs is 0... stealing signs using electronics probably a 6

When I was catching I changed my indicator relatively frequently with a runner on second especially if I thought they were picking me off. The idiots that picked my signs off and yelled curve fast whatever while standing on usually got hit the next time up if the situation allowed for it just for being a moron.

Alomar stole signs properly and he gets props from me.

Well the Boston area is famous for people burned at the stake.

And cheating

I'm with Mr. Brian when it comes to stealing signs in baseball, and I played the game all the way through varsity in high school. Back in my day (I started playing in the late 1960s, on a dirt-and-gravel school playground and on the sandlot, where I tried to make diving stops at third base, a la the immortal Brooks Robinson of the Baltimore Orioles, but somehow never succeeded), you always tried to steal the other team's signs, and you could do so in various ways, if you were skilled enough and aware enough. You also slid "spikes high" and brushback pitches and such were accepted parts of the games, which gives you an idea of how primitive we all were LOL!.

But like my colleague ( ;-) ) says, it's the use of the tech nowadays that got the Beantown Boomers into trouble. That's hardly cricket, to borrow a phrase from our English cousins. ;-)

I'd give it a 5 -- maybe a 6 -- on the outrage meter. Stealing signs is, indeed, time-honored in baseball, but the tech thing takes it a bit too far, in my opinion. And I suspect some baseball purists would probably give it a 7 or 8, maybe.

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

This isn't really related (other than just being baseball) but the field I used to play on had a ditch running through deep left field. We called it the pit of doom.

One time whilst chasing a fly ball, I jumped in the air to try to catch the ball (didn't). Anyway, I must have jumped from the precipice of the pit because when I thought I was going to land, there was no ground. I kept going for another two feet or so and eventually collapsed in a heap in the pit. That ball went for an inside the park job.

Good times.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

That's an awesome story! :-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

I guess I'm curious why stealing signs is an accepted part of the game, but using technology to perform the same task raises the level to measurable outrage. If I understand correctly, the technology is not doing the figuring for the player/coach (a la artificial intelligence). The human still has to steal/interpret the sign, correct?!

Is it the communication aspect that makes it (subjectively) unfair?

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

That field was built in a hydro corridor (sorry, Canada speak... it was built under power lines). If you hit a fly ball that was knocked down by the power line it was a ground rule double.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Exactly. If you're gonna steal the other team's signs you should also have to relay those stolen signs using your own signs. It's all about etiquette, you see. ;-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

That seems a fair ground rule. We had the same sort of set-up. If you hit this neighbor's house it was a single, the next neighbor's house, a double, and so forth. If you jacked a tater (i.e. a home run), it was only truly a tater if it was to the left of a certain tree in the right side of the outfield. We also had elaborate systems for determining what was what in terms of outs and foul balls, especially if we could only muster five players a side and the like. :-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

Actually it was a pretty stupid ground rule. Most of those "doubles" would have been fly balls to the outfield which likely would have been caught.

It sucked having a track on a ball and then seeing it drop to the ground just past the infield and then to watch the tool trot into second safely.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I guess it's like hitting a fly ball into the top of a domed stadium's roof, n'cest ce pas? ;-)

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

If we must endure thievery, then we shall have honor among thieves!

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"The right to party is a battle we have fought, but we'll surrender and go Amish... NOT!" -Wayne Campbell

Indubitably. :-)

It's like when your pitcher hits a batter from the opposing team. You just knew that you or someone else coming up to bat on your team was gonna get plunked by their pitcher in retaliation. That's just etiquette. LOL!

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"Politics is just show business for ugly people."

I always laugh when teams cry that the other team is stealing their signs. Um, ok. So make better signs.

Yup, it's basically Capt. Renault saying "I am shocked! Shocked that gambling is going on here!" while accepting his winnings all over again.

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"You can never win or lose if you don't run the race." - Richard Butler

Yeah that looks about right to me. The sign-stealing isn't an issue, that's pure gamesmanship. It's when you do things outside the typical 'guy on 2nd looking in for a sign' or 'batter trying to take a peek' type of sign-stealing, and use technology to aid the process, that I take issue. I think it's a legit complaint and the team is wrong to have done it and should be penalized, but I also don't think it's a HUGE deal...dumbass strategy by the team but it likely doesn't impact the game on the field much at all.

Windywave will love this: I liken this to the Spygate scandal, when you think about the intention and the violation and the severity they're VERY similar imo:
1. in both instances stealing signs wasn't illegal, in fact it's almost a time-honored tradition and teams protect against it as much as possible (catchers mitt shielding batters and switching up the order of signs when runners are on 2nd; coordinators and coaches covering their mouths when speaking into the headset and giving handsignals that change periodically).
2. in both instances the violation was in using technology (cameras, Apple watches) to streamline the process - watches to communicate faster and relay info to 2nd base; cameras to better line up coaches signals to game situation. The benefits are questionable - how much time does this give a batter, and can they really process the information in time to benefit in possibly knowing the pitch? what good does it do to know the coaches signals, lined up with play calls, since most teams they wouldn't play again that season anyway?
3. in this instance Manfred is getting ahead of it and controlling the situation, giving it the import it deserves but not allowing it to turn into a national firestorm. Goodell let the entire fucking stadium burn down, as he's done on numerous occasions (Bountygate, Spygate, Dolphins bullying, Ray Rice, Deflategate, now Zeke).