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Prediction: Hard Brexit
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Made by a pretty smart fellow, though obviously a Brexiteer.

Combine British schizophrenia about the decision arrived at by referendum (and former British PM David Cameron is no doubt permanently enshrined as a blackguard for having made the monumentally bad decision to hold the Brexit referendum in the first place) with the pettiness so far evidenced by Brussels during Brexit negotiations and what do you get? Probably the ugliest of departures from the European Union for Britain and the rest of the UK.

So, Britain: have you paid the Iron Price? Well? HAVE YOU? ;-)



"I’m 99% sure the Brexit negotiations are going to collapse and the UK will thus be entirely separate from the EU. In the medium term that will be a good thing, but in the short term it will cause chaos for the UK, Ireland and probably much of Europe.

Why do I think this? because the EU leadership want to punish the UK for having the temerity to


  1. hold a referendum on the EU
  2. actually follow the popular wishes expressed in said referendum


Other nations have in the past had referenda on various parts of EU membership – France, Ireland and Holland come to mind as ones who have voted against the EU at various times. Whenever the vote has been against the EU, the population has either been told to do it again and this time get the “right” answer or the EU and national governments have simply ignored the vote and pressed on anyway.

The EU elites are simply in denial that a government would not do the same but the Conservatives are absolutely united on the principle that “Out means out” and that therefore the UK will be leaving.

Right now the argument is about the “non-negotiable” cost of leaving, which, as Tim Worstall points out, is really the cost of staying. The EU insists this has to be resolved before anything else and the lead EU negotiator has been really snarky about the UK position. He is of course wrong, only an idiot or a Eurocrat (but I repeat myself) would think it sensible to first agree the price and then haggle on what you get for the money.

A sane EU would first go for the obvious win-win points get them out of the way and then go for the trickier ones. For example no one wants a European version of Indian partition to take place across the English Channel so it is obvious that a) visitors who are non-workers and not entitled to benefits/healthcare etc. will be allowed to enter and live as freely as they do now and that b) current residents as of some defined date like the day the UK formally submitted its leave notification will also be allowed to work etc. etc. Then you’d work on other easy things such as the academic research funding (the UK wants this and has stated its willingness to continue to contribute to it) before moving onto slightly trickier points like, say, the Irish border, customs inspections and how to avoid them by doing the paperwork properly and so on. Only once you’ve got the obvious stuff knocked out do you go to the contentious issues like payment, tariffs and so on.

In my opinion the fact that the EU is attempting to do the whole thing bass ackwards is a strong indication that they want it to fail unless the UK is humiliated. I’m fairly sure that HMG is not keen on the humiliation idea so therefore I expect they will prefer a hard Brexit with no agreement to some kind of deal where the UK pays a huge amount to not really escape the tentacles of Brussels other than in a few meaningless areas. This might also explain why Jean Claude Druncker spouts utter bollocks regarding the negotiations. On the other hand it is possible that this bass ackwards approach is because the payment issue is the most important thing for the Eurocrats personally. If the UK pays nothing then the EU budget will take a big hit and the generous Eurocrat lifestyle may have to go on a bit of a diet, not that the Eurocrat perks will likely suffer much, after all some of the top ones have nice lucrative side jobs, more likely there will just be less pork to spread around and thus the EU will become less popular with the populace. Either way the UK clearly needs to play hardball on the contribution issue and work on contingency plans for when the EU stomps off in a huff because it isn’t getting the money it wants."

Prediction: Hard Brexit - L'Ombre de l'Olivier

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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The British are cutting off their noses to spite their faces...


"Warwick University’s Prof Crafts says no one can know exactly how much the EU directly benefited Britain, but a 10 per cent rise in prosperity is a reasonable estimate. “That dominates any reasonable idea of what the membership fee is,” he concludes. He cautions there is little evidence that joining the bloc permanently increased Britain’s growth rate, since the EU primarily boosted the economy in the 1970s and 1990s. But leaving the union could jeopardise the UK’s gains from increased openness and competition — the contributions economists overwhelmingly say the EU has made to British prosperity. (bold mine)


Even economists backing Brexit rarely argue that the EU has had an overall negative effect. Arbuthnot Securities’ Ms Lea describes the bloc’s economic impact as “fairly negligible”. Patrick Minford, long one of the most outspoken economists backing Brexit, said in late February that EU membership had benefited the British economy by freeing trade."

"The great pleasure in life is doing what people say you cannot do."
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [jkca1] [ In reply to ]
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Seems that way to me, in many respects.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion the fact that the EU is attempting to do the whole thing bass ackwards is a strong indication that they want it to fail unless the UK is humiliated. I’m fairly sure that HMG is not keen on the humiliation idea so therefore I expect they will prefer a hard Brexit with no agreement to some kind of deal where the UK pays a huge amount to not really escape the tentacles of Brussels other than in a few meaningless areas.

Yup. It's going just like this.

The new Home Secretary Sajid Javid has voted against the Customs Union and tipped the balance in favour of a possible hard Brexit. (I wonder if Theresa May regrets appointing him?). The good thing is that this might hold the government together.
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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I'm in favour of any Brexit-EU deal or free trade agreement that includes the forced exportation of Piers Morgan. I don't care which country will be unfortunate enough to have to take him in - and I don't care how much it costs British taxpayers.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/...gusting-garbage.html
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Conservatives are not united. Thry never have been

The ERG led by his mogginess, the honourable member for times past, are vehemently anti any deal.

The Tories with the support of the dup have a majority of 11 (?), so the Erg believe they have the whip hand to bring down saint Theresa

The problem is that in addition to the referendum, Cameron I think brought in the fixed term parliament, so even if they decide to put her to the sword on This, it is not a matter of confidence that could lead to a general election

A general election can only be brought on by specific legislation requiring, I think, a 2/3 majority, essentially the Tories would require labours support. I am not sure even labour are stupid enough to want to own this shit show at this late stage in the game

May has an enormous problem with the Lords revisions to her bill, the fact that her strategy is completely incoherent and that in the end they have committed to "no hard border" between roi and ni.

The backstop agreed position was in the event that no agreement was reached, regulatory alignment would be maintained between north and south. In that event because the dup would not accept a border splitting the union down the Irish sea the whole of the UK would remain aligned making it a rule taker from the eu with no say, a vassal state

The eu has the UK over a proverbial barrel. Having committed to protecting the good Friday agreement with no border, the result was always goinf to be that they would never accept any proposal as they knew the fall back was the status quo

They have made a catastrophic fucking mess of this. The only consolation is that the eu is doubling down on its authoritarian stance on other members in the east, who's politics or disagrees with and where they will cut off funding where they don't like their version of democracy

Whilst the UK may roll over, the poles and Hungarians will not and I do not think the UK will be the first to leave

At a much deeper level what this is all about is the French wanting shared debt. They want standardised taxes, a contribution from every earner in the eu to go direct to brussels and this is not widely popular. The brits voted to leave., others are sceptics but to date have not followed through but more and more centralised control from Brussels could well tip them over the edge

As an aside, if the report on what saj javid said is true, fucking well played because Theresa May is awful, as demonstrated by her lying, hostile home office policies that forced Rudd to fall on her sword
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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Theresa May is a survivor who meddles on seemingly without direction and only takes a stand at the last moment. In this way there will probably not be enough time for the ERG/Moggsters, or even the Ken Clarkes/Anna Soubrys, to launch a coup until it's too late.

If there is a leadership election I'm sure the Brexiteers will agree on one solid candidate (Mogg, David Davis?) who can win at least 33,4% of the MPs vote, and thereby go on to the finals where ordinary members get to vote. Ordinary members will most likely prefer a Brexiteer to any Remainer. So all the Brexiteers need is the backing of 33,4% of MPs to most likely win the leadership election.

It is therefore unlikely Soubry and Clarke would want a leadership election, whilst the Moggsters would be more inclined to take a chance at it. But they would have to make a move at the right time and well before next year's deadline.

The Tories are doing rather well in the polls. At this stage in the electoral cycle, Labour should be 10 points ahead. This makes things easier for both sides.
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]
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You're right. What a hash they've made of things.

Also: forcing Piers Morgan on us again, if he's involuntarily exported our way, would be an act of war and we'd respond accordingly. Fair warning. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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The leader as it curently stands makes no difference as they effectively need both the dup and labour even if they whip the vote because soubry and Clarke and grieve and others will never vote with mogg / David

The Tories were crushing the polls last year as well. We all know how that panned out

I do t believe JC could win a GE but it's academic as the fixed term parliament will prevent another GE any time soon

May is a mess and it's not good news but there is no viable alternative. Most Tories are not signed up to the erg view of the world
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
You're right. What a hash they've made of things.

Also: forcing Piers Morgan on us again, if he's involuntarily exported our way, would be an act of war and we'd respond accordingly. Fair warning. ;-)

An export of Morgan Piers would be part of the UK-EU deal - not the US. Also, it's not as if the EU will have to have him hanging around Brussels. I am sure there is a minor country in Southern Europe that are in for a renegotiation of their debts that could be persuaded to take responsibility for him.
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Re: Prediction: Hard Brexit [Chewie] [ In reply to ]
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Chewie wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
You're right. What a hash they've made of things.

Also: forcing Piers Morgan on us again, if he's involuntarily exported our way, would be an act of war and we'd respond accordingly. Fair warning. ;-)


An export of Morgan Piers would be part of the UK-EU deal - not the US. Also, it's not as if the EU will have to have him hanging around Brussels. I am sure there is a minor country in Southern Europe that are in for a renegotiation of their debts that could be persuaded to take responsibility for him.

Send him to Andorra or Lichtenstein or some other principality reeking of indolence and unseriousness. Barring that, I vote for East Europe. Preferably someplace run by a Viktor Orban authoritarian type who won't put up with his nonsense. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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