Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory

Aug 29, 17 18:47

Post #1 of 24 (3536 views)

Finish line is up here...seems like a joint venture with the German Max Planck Institute:

Stage profile says it all. A real grind with extended climbing. It is bit more difficult than the longer climbs that Contador lost 3 minutes on during week 1:

First climb looks a bit harder than Alpe d'Huez ending with a 15 percent grade. I assume some of the GC guys will go hard close to the summit to break the chasers and whittle down the group. I suspect Contador will want to go hard here to lose some of the guys in between him and the podium. Froome and Sky will be happy to play along to loose a bunch of people and put them out of contention. :

Then a quick descent and then 15K uphill:

There is nothinig ultra super duper steep here overall given that it flattens out in the second half. I suspect Sky will put down the hammer late on climb I and keep the throttle on full bore for another 7K until they get into the flatter part and just ride tempo to the top and however comes with them is fine, but they will try to eliminate as many threats as possible. Orica Scott should have some cards to play on the second half of this with 2xYates plus Chavez.

This should be a stage that Teejay can hang in the entire time for BMC....but let's see.

Top 10 after 10 stages, Contador sitting 3 minutes outside a podium

General classification after stage 10#Rider Name (Country) TeamResult1Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky40:12:44 2Johan Esteban Chaves Rubio (Col) Orica-Scott0:00:36 3Nicolas Roche (Irl) BMC Racing Team 4Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Bahrain-Merida0:01:17 5Tejay van Garderen (USA) BMC Racing Team0:01:27 6David de la Cruz (Spa) Quick-Step Floors0:01:30 7Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team0:01:33 8Michael Woods (Can) Cannondale-Drapac0:01:52 9Adam Yates (GBr) Orica-Scott0:01:55 10Ilnur Zakarin (Rus) Katusha-Alpecin0:02:15

Last edited by: devashish_paul: Aug 29, 17 18:49

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 29, 17 19:21

Post #2 of 24 (3518 views)

Can't believe I will be stuck at the office all day tomorrow, of all bloody days!

Dev, not sure why you commented on the climb where AC lost a couple minutes. He was sick that day, so it's not a relevant comparison, as you have clearly seen in the last few stages.

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 29, 17 21:20

Post #3 of 24 (3479 views)

I hope we see some Contador style chaos tomorrow. My bet is that Chavez and Contador are the two punchy threats to Froome. The climbs are long enough we will be able to see who has real fitness and who has just had enough juice to survive the punchy climbs in the opening week.

I hope to see another good performance from Woods. I don't know if a stage win is in the cards, given that he is probably seen as a legit GC threat and won't be given any leeway.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

bluefever

Aug 29, 17 23:15

Post #4 of 24 (3447 views)

Thanks for the summary.

With no very steep parts, this has Sky Tempo train written all over it - and then the final 3k Froome to attack somewhere.

With some looney stages to come, perhaps no one will want to smash themselves today.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 5:39

Post #5 of 24 (3377 views)

bluefever wrote:

Thanks for the summary.

With no very steep parts, this has Sky Tempo train written all over it - and then the final 3k Froome to attack somewhere.

With some looney stages to come, perhaps no one will want to smash themselves today.

What about Bardet attacking on the 15% of the second climb, attacking the descent and then trying to uphill TT to the stage win. He should have a big leash to play with since he's out of GC. Definitely a Sky tempo day for sure. It feels like there should be 6-8 people together with 7K to go on the Calar Alto climb.

Here in Canada cycling.tv still has free coverage of stage 11 coming up shortly.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 5:46

Post #6 of 24 (3374 views)

CPT Chaos wrote:

Can't believe I will be stuck at the office all day tomorrow, of all bloody days!

Dev, not sure why you commented on the climb where AC lost a couple minutes. He was sick that day, so it's not a relevant comparison, as you have clearly seen in the last few stages.

Jack, what about steaming cycling.tv to your desktop. If you are in a conference room with colleagues, maybe you can say, "I have a video to show you guys on teamwork. This is the team of the team that won the Tour de France by less than half a mile of distance after racing 2500 miles. This is the teamwork that is the difference. Look at the other teams vs Sky.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 6:22

Post #7 of 24 (3350 views)

Big rain day and they are now 10K out from the final 60k of climbing and descending. Fortunately an uphill finish, but they could have a cold wet descent before. I think this opens things up for someone like Bardet to go ballistic on the wet descent. GC guys will take the descent more carefully.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 6:25

Post #8 of 24 (3347 views)

I have the NBC gold app so I can stream, but will be leading meetings all morning so not exactly a good idea to bring it up....

Today does look like a day for an attack on the penultimate climb as Sky will want to ride Tempo for sure, and any really strong attack will blow up the field or be let go.

"Only those who risk going too far can possibly find out how far one can go." T.S. Elliot | Cycle2Tri.com
Sponsors: SciCon | | Every Man Jack

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 6:45

Post #9 of 24 (3339 views)

CPT Chaos wrote:

I have the NBC gold app so I can stream, but will be leading meetings all morning so not exactly a good idea to bring it up....

Today does look like a day for an attack on the penultimate climb as Sky will want to ride Tempo for sure, and any really strong attack will blow up the field or be let go.

You could warm up your meeting with a 5 min stream of riders going up a 2100m climb in 6C celsius and driving rain and go with, "some days your work environment sucks, but we step up and perform even when everything including the competition is working against us".....then that 5 min warmup show ends up with people asking you all kinds of questions on what is going on so you get 10 min minimum before diving into corporate stuff LOL! It's part of being "you" at work. And someone will invariably ask if when you race if you have to deal with shit like that and of course the answer is "yes".

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [CPT Chaos] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 8:16

Post #10 of 24 (3308 views)

My prediction about Bardet attack on the first climb is panning out (not that hard to predict that)!

Last edited by: devashish_paul: Aug 30, 17 8:49

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

bluefever

Aug 30, 17 9:00

Post #11 of 24 (3285 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

My prediction about Bardet attack on the first climb is panning out (not that hard to predict that)!

Indeed :)

Dramatic finish, did Froome show sign of weakness for real, or was it just his riding style?

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [bluefever] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 9:35

Post #12 of 24 (3257 views)

bluefever wrote:

devashish_paul wrote:

My prediction about Bardet attack on the first climb is panning out (not that hard to predict that)!

Indeed :)

Dramatic finish, did Froome show sign of weakness for real, or was it just his riding style?

What a great finish. Nibali was awesome, but why did he not try to get the time bonus off Froome at the end. Contador, actually won pretty big as he now sits only 1:20 minutes outside the podium in 9th pace and he's SHOULD be able to TT stronger than almost everyone in between himself at 2nd place. The TT day he could wipe all that gap out. Hopefully he paces himself out and enters the TT reasonably fresh.

On paper BMC was the big loser to me, but Teejay is only 2.5 minutes outside the podium. He just can't lose any more time on mountain stage and TT well and he can have a shot. It seems like he did not croak completely after the rest day, just lost some time on the 3500m of climbing over the last 40K today.

Without a major bonk or mechanical, or crash, Froome has this wrapped up.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 10:08

Post #13 of 24 (3231 views)

Froome seemed to be having a mechanical a day during the Tour, but he's been riding pretty clean here in Spain

Funny that since they didn't bring Landa with them, that issue seems to have cleared up?

#landaconspiracytheory

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [RandMart] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 10:15

Post #14 of 24 (3228 views)

RandMart wrote:

Froome seemed to be having a mechanical a day during the Tour, but he's been riding pretty clean here in Spain

Funny that since they didn't bring Landa with them, that issue seems to have cleared up?

#landaconspiracytheory

Perhaps Movistar rolled that into Landa's signing bonus...."signing bonus goes up by x% for every stage where Froome gets a mechanical"....now go and consult IM70.3 Syracuse Deflategate chic and figure out the tactics.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [RandMart] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 10:52

Post #15 of 24 (3206 views)

It was crazy I was listening to a cycling podcast (cant remember it exactly). They had like a 45 min convesation I believe sunday or monday with Froome. It was crazy how he stated he feels really good for the Vuelta, because they actually went into the Tour "undertrained". Now what that actually meant, is I guess up for debate. Maybe it was because of the route design of the Tour, but I kinda chuckled....that's how superior Sky feels, it sends the best in the world in the biggest race "under prepared". Of course when half your rivals are burned out before the start, you can do that.

I just found it interesting and refreshingly open and honest about his love for the Vuelta, his pursuit of the Tour/Vuelta double, etc. It was a good listen.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 11:06

Post #16 of 24 (3196 views)

The interesting thing for me is that if he wins the Vuelta, then going on to win the Giro would enable him to hold all 3 titles at the same time. Something I think has only been done once, by Merckx in 72/73. That would surely be tempting, but would also potentially leave him vulnerable at the Tour which to date has been Sky's primary goal.

If he wins the Vuelta I'd love to see him and Sky throw caution to the wind and just go for the Giro. Be a hell of an achievement.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 12:27

Post #17 of 24 (3168 views)

B_Doughtie wrote:

It was crazy I was listening to a cycling podcast (cant remember it exactly). They had like a 45 min convesation I believe sunday or monday with Froome. It was crazy how he stated he feels really good for the Vuelta, because they actually went into the Tour "undertrained". Now what that actually meant, is I guess up for debate. Maybe it was because of the route design of the Tour, but I kinda chuckled....that's how superior Sky feels, it sends the best in the world in the biggest race "under prepared". Of course when half your rivals are burned out before the start, you can do that.

I just found it interesting and refreshingly open and honest about his love for the Vuelta, his pursuit of the Tour/Vuelta double, etc. It was a good listen.

Very interesting. I wonder how Froomes training and anual build up looks like and how it did in the past. Cam Wurf told in an interview that Chris goes balls out in training all the time. As Dev rightfully noted in another thread it's probably closer to " only" 90% in offseason. But still.

When Wiggins had his dream summer in 2012 there was talk about him peaking too early when riding strong in the early season and winning everything.
They explained, however, that he was just "learning" how to be team leader and how to lead a team and stage races. And they noted that their "reverse periodization" made it possible to be in great form in may and still get better and better the longer the summer lasts.

Fromme did similar things in the past. Smashing Romandie and Dauphiné for example.
But obviously this year was different and it sounds logical at first. You delay your peak so that you just come into real form for the Tour and then extend it and be still super fit for the Vuelta.

Wer all saw Froome struggle at the Dauphiné and it makes him human. However, when he goes balls out since January, as Wurf said, why is he struggling there and then gets unbeatable in July/August/September? What does happen between the Dauphine and the Tour?

Is it because before he only rode at 90% in Training as assumed by Dev and then goes to 100 before the Tour? Or is their focus that shifts? Doing slower and faster than racepace early season and then key efforts before the big races.

Also interesting, in his book Froome states that it's mentally hard for him to taper and take it easier. He sais it is often a fine line between overtraining and fitness. And he fears gaining weight during light days before big races.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 12:53

Post #18 of 24 (3153 views)

Froome really looked on the ropes a few times in the last 5k but managed to come back strong. Everyone else who rode the Tour is roasted and it's starting to show.

Froome's to lose at this point. However, the Angliru still looms and that will hopefully be decisive ala the Horner vs. Nibali battle.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 13:26

Post #19 of 24 (3129 views)

cartsman wrote:

The interesting thing for me is that if he wins the Vuelta, then going on to win the Giro would enable him to hold all 3 titles at the same time. Something I think has only been done once, by Merckx in 72/73. That would surely be tempting, but would also potentially leave him vulnerable at the Tour which to date has been Sky's primary goal.

If he wins the Vuelta I'd love to see him and Sky throw caution to the wind and just go for the Giro. Be a hell of an achievement.

I suppose he could just ride the Giro "undertrained" (even less undertrained than the TdF) with a target to get into 95% form for the week 3 TT and Dolomites stages and other than that, for 2 weeks just "sit in and not lose time"...no attacks, no nothing (even less than in the TdF) and then do his altitude camp like he did before the Vuelta and hit "full gas" on week 2 of the TdF.

But Quintana did the 2016 "underform", then ripped the 2016 Vuelta for the win, was on fire early season and started getting drawn out and sick by Giro week 3. By the time he went to the TdF which was the TdF+Vuelta+Giro+TdF 13 month "quad" he was done.

In fairness Froome is also on the TdF-Vuelta-TdF-Vuelta 13 month "quad" too as we speak. But Froome's 2017 TdF strategy seemed to be about minimizing all energy expenditure for the entire 3 weeks. He did not even bury any TT's to try to win them, he just did enough for margins on the climbers.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 13:47

Post #20 of 24 (3112 views)

Yup, definitely risky, it's why I'd like to see him try it. I think holding all 3 titles simultaneously is a bigger achievement than winning a 5th Tour. I also think Froome and Sky are a lot better than Quintana and Movistar at planning a training session. Quintana's form has always been a bit hit and miss, Froome is nearly always on top form for his target A races.

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 13:53

Post #21 of 24 (3104 views)

ToBeasy wrote:

B_Doughtie wrote:

It was crazy I was listening to a cycling podcast (cant remember it exactly). They had like a 45 min convesation I believe sunday or monday with Froome. It was crazy how he stated he feels really good for the Vuelta, because they actually went into the Tour "undertrained". Now what that actually meant, is I guess up for debate. Maybe it was because of the route design of the Tour, but I kinda chuckled....that's how superior Sky feels, it sends the best in the world in the biggest race "under prepared". Of course when half your rivals are burned out before the start, you can do that.

I just found it interesting and refreshingly open and honest about his love for the Vuelta, his pursuit of the Tour/Vuelta double, etc. It was a good listen.

Very interesting. I wonder how Froomes training and anual build up looks like and how it did in the past. Cam Wurf told in an interview that Chris goes balls out in training all the time. As Dev rightfully noted in another thread it's probably closer to " only" 90% in offseason. But still.

When Wiggins had his dream summer in 2012 there was talk about him peaking too early when riding strong in the early season and winning everything.
They explained, however, that he was just "learning" how to be team leader and how to lead a team and stage races. And they noted that their "reverse periodization" made it possible to be in great form in may and still get better and better the longer the summer lasts.

Fromme did similar things in the past. Smashing Romandie and Dauphiné for example.
But obviously this year was different and it sounds logical at first. You delay your peak so that you just come into real form for the Tour and then extend it and be still super fit for the Vuelta.

Wer all saw Froome struggle at the Dauphiné and it makes him human. However, when he goes balls out since January, as Wurf said, why is he struggling there and then gets unbeatable in July/August/September? What does happen between the Dauphine and the Tour?

Is it because before he only rode at 90% in Training as assumed by Dev and then goes to 100 before the Tour? Or is their focus that shifts? Doing slower and faster than racepace early season and then key efforts before the big races.

Also interesting, in his book Froome states that it's mentally hard for him to taper and take it easier. He sais it is often a fine line between overtraining and fitness. And he fears gaining weight during light days before big races.

i imagine he was treating the dauphine as part of a training block so he came into it fatigued rather than tapering. that hard training is what set him up to be so good at the tour

he has the past performance for him and the team to be happy staking everything on the tour. most others feel the need to do well in other races for confidence, points, sponsors etc

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 13:56

Post #22 of 24 (3102 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

cartsman wrote:

The interesting thing for me is that if he wins the Vuelta, then going on to win the Giro would enable him to hold all 3 titles at the same time. Something I think has only been done once, by Merckx in 72/73. That would surely be tempting, but would also potentially leave him vulnerable at the Tour which to date has been Sky's primary goal.

If he wins the Vuelta I'd love to see him and Sky throw caution to the wind and just go for the Giro. Be a hell of an achievement.

I suppose he could just ride the Giro "undertrained" (even less undertrained than the TdF) with a target to get into 95% form for the week 3 TT and Dolomites stages and other than that, for 2 weeks just "sit in and not lose time"...no attacks, no nothing (even less than in the TdF) and then do his altitude camp like he did before the Vuelta and hit "full gas" on week 2 of the TdF.

But Quintana did the 2016 "underform", then ripped the 2016 Vuelta for the win, was on fire early season and started getting drawn out and sick by Giro week 3. By the time he went to the TdF which was the TdF+Vuelta+Giro+TdF 13 month "quad" he was done.

In fairness Froome is also on the TdF-Vuelta-TdF-Vuelta 13 month "quad" too as we speak. But Froome's 2017 TdF strategy seemed to be about minimizing all energy expenditure for the entire 3 weeks. He did not even bury any TT's to try to win them, he just did enough for margins on the climbers.

froome is far superior to quintana and has better team support on and off the road. i think froome could do it, if he can recover enough after the vuelta to get in a good off season and base first. given that he is talking about doing the TT and TTT at worlds that is unlikely.
i can't see sky risking the tour anyway but they should - they've won the tour enough that its pretty meaningless to do it again (though 5 would match the record) whereas 2 doubles plus holding all 3 at once would be the stuff of legends

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [pk1] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 14:06

Post #23 of 24 (3101 views)

Put me down for $100 for Froome to not win Giro (is he even doing it). I can't see Sky giving up Tour prep and I don't think you can win Giro with that type of racing specificity under trained. That's a recipe for looking great and then hitting the wall harrrrrrrd 2 days later.

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Re: Vuelta stage 11: 2x Cat 1 ending at Calar Alto Observatory [pk1] [ In reply to ]

Aug 30, 17 20:13

Post #24 of 24 (3051 views)

pk1 wrote:

devashish_paul wrote:

cartsman wrote:

The interesting thing for me is that if he wins the Vuelta, then going on to win the Giro would enable him to hold all 3 titles at the same time. Something I think has only been done once, by Merckx in 72/73. That would surely be tempting, but would also potentially leave him vulnerable at the Tour which to date has been Sky's primary goal.

If he wins the Vuelta I'd love to see him and Sky throw caution to the wind and just go for the Giro. Be a hell of an achievement.

I suppose he could just ride the Giro "undertrained" (even less undertrained than the TdF) with a target to get into 95% form for the week 3 TT and Dolomites stages and other than that, for 2 weeks just "sit in and not lose time"...no attacks, no nothing (even less than in the TdF) and then do his altitude camp like he did before the Vuelta and hit "full gas" on week 2 of the TdF.

But Quintana did the 2016 "underform", then ripped the 2016 Vuelta for the win, was on fire early season and started getting drawn out and sick by Giro week 3. By the time he went to the TdF which was the TdF+Vuelta+Giro+TdF 13 month "quad" he was done.

In fairness Froome is also on the TdF-Vuelta-TdF-Vuelta 13 month "quad" too as we speak. But Froome's 2017 TdF strategy seemed to be about minimizing all energy expenditure for the entire 3 weeks. He did not even bury any TT's to try to win them, he just did enough for margins on the climbers.

froome is far superior to quintana and has better team support on and off the road. i think froome could do it, if he can recover enough after the vuelta to get in a good off season and base first. given that he is talking about doing the TT and TTT at worlds that is unlikely.
i can't see sky risking the tour anyway but they should - they've won the tour enough that its pretty meaningless to do it again (though 5 would match the record) whereas 2 doubles plus holding all 3 at once would be the stuff of legends

I think those of us who are cycling fans will care if he holds all three titles at the same time, but outside of cycling, no one will care and really Sky's sponsors will largely care about all the "July cycling fans"....and also inside cycling, winning 5 TdF's puts you up there with Merckx, Hinault, Anquetil, Indurain and just 2 behind Lance (sorry, I can't talk about Indurain, Anquetil and Merckx in a group of known dopers and not mention Lance cause he was a doper asshole and the others were just regular dopers....not like Hinault was warm teddy bear either though, but I can't recall him testing positive, only Fignon...and I suppose Indurain never tested positive, he only cleaned up at the full on ramp of the EPO era....so whatever)...5 wins is 5 wins and the British public is going to want their white Kenyan via South Africa who lives in Monaco to hold 5.

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