What, exactly, is your problem with this vehicle, which the SB police department says it uses about 4 times per year?

It's not a weapon. It doesn't have a cannon or grenade launcher. It's just an armored truck.

Is it just that it looks mean to you?

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

We don't need it.

That's what my problem is.

And it doesn't help the (justified) perception that our local PD has a generally adversarial relationship with a pretty damn peaceful city population.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Well, apparently the SB police have used it or vehicles like it for exactly the kind of situation it's designed for, including negotiating with an armed suspect on a highway overpass. Plus, it was free, so they didn't spend any public funds on it.

I think a vehicle like that only contributes to an adversarial relationship if people are already convinced it's some sort of evil thing to begin with, or if they're using it all the time and running around in full SWAT gear for every simple call.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=XoT0EjkgJzY

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

The SBPD is not a very friendly bunch.

I'll give you one example...

One of the parks that has activities during Fiesta is on a major four lane street. There's a crosswalk that is heavily used during the festivities. At this crosswalk there are 6 motorcycle cops who are there for the sole purpose of waiting for a pedestrian to step off the curb so they ticket the (at least) four drivers who are unfortunate enough to be passing through the crosswalk at that moment. They did this in 2015 and issued around 200 tickets on Friday and Saturday alone.

Many people were a bit cranked about it and the idea was proposed that instead of allowing drivers to "endanger" pedestrians so they can issue tickets, maybe they should put a traffic control officer at the crosswalk. This would eliminate the need for a half dozen officers, make crossing safer and not catch drivers in a, for most instances, bullshit violation.

So what did the SBPD do for 2016 and 2017? They had plain clothes cops constantly crossing at that intersection in a "sting operation" so they could issue more tickets.

Here's another example...

Our city was found to be one of the dangerous cities of its size for cyclists.

SBPD stepped up enforcement on....




....cyclists.



Have I told you about how fucking fast they drive in my street, for no reason, and then retaliate when I complain?

How long have you lived in SB anyway?

And that armed dude on the overpass was handled like shit. How do I know? Because I watched The whole fucking thing go down while sitting in my car stuck on the freeway for 3 hours.

It was a joke.

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

My gawd! It sounds like Hitler's Germany!

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

I'm not going to try to defend the SBPD. I don't live there, and they could be total pricks for all I know, although one would be silly to take your word for it, given the bias you've displayed against law enforcement over the past few years.

I just don't understand why them having a vehicle that can really only be used as a defensive measure for police or citizens would piss someone off, especially since your tax dollars weren't spent on it, and it's apparently very rarely used.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Maintenance of those big military vehicles is often non-trivial. Often also requires specialized maintenance equipment and skills. The vehicles are not "free" to a dept's annual budget.

No, it's really just par for the course in rich communities. Of course, if Wisconsin had any rich communities you'd know this and Hillary would have made a campaign stop there.

Plus, it was free, so they didn't spend any public funds on it.

"It was free"?? Come on. You know better.

3 years ago? Wouldn't that have been Obama's America?

Not all of the military equipment is war specific, much of the equipment is suitable for civilian use like skip loaders, earth movers and utility vehicles such as the old deuce and half trucks. Many of the cities around where I live have former military equipment for their snow removal/road cleanup program, and would not have any means of removing snow after a snow event or dirt and stones from a road after a landslide.

As far as the photo that Duffy posted, such a vehicle would be invaluable in cases where a well armed and prepared group of bank robbers decided Santa Barbara was a good place for their chosen career field.

Part of the training that law enforcement gets is the video of the bank robbery that went down where the robbers had MAC 90s that they had modified into AK-47s (full auto), and head to toe kelvar overcoats and helmets. That event lasted a long time, with police officers wounded in the street while the bad guys ruled the scene. The police had nothing other than handguns and shotguns at the time, neither of which would be effective in stopping the bad guys, who walked up and down the sidewalk keeping the police at bay with gunfire while they decided how to escape.

Eventually a police detective went into a local gun shop and commandeered a 30.06 rifle and ammo to use. He shot one of the bad guys and they decided to leave the scene, and then other police eventually stopped the bad guy a few blocks away.

This has happened more than once, as it happened again in 1997 in North Hollywood, CA.

It's a truck. I doubt that they're taking on a lot of specialized maintenance, in fact, the company that makes them advertises the Bearcat's advantages as including low maintenance costs.

No, any vehicle adds something to a budget in terms of maintenance, fuel, etc. However, my point, pretty obviously, was that the vehicle was donated and they didn't have to purchase it.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Serious question...

Why would a police force that refuses to act to stop a few antifa protestors armed with sticks and peeper spray then choose to engage in a gun battle with a well armed and prepared group of bank robbers?

Why not just let the bank robbers take the money and then try to find them later (surveilance videos, dye packs, GPS trackers, THE FBI, etc.)?

It's just weird to me. Cops all around the country will stand by and watch as these "protestors" block traffic and beat people up because they're wearing Trump hats then turn around and claim they need an armored vehicle so they can do battle against guys with ak47s...

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Civilize the mind, but make savage the body.

- Chinese proverb

Do you need a few minutes to think this through?

At my work we mainatain 4 HMMWVs and some other vehicles They're expensive to maintain. They use almost no commercial off-the-shelf parts. Everything is super heavy. You can't use regular commercial jacks or lifts. Even a wheel change is hard. The diagnostic systems are custom. Brake jobs are brutal since the brakes aren't in the wheels. You either need a whole garage outfitted for it, or you take it to a shop with military vehicle experience, which are few and far between since most military bases have on-base depots.

The Bearcat is based on a Ford F-550. That one's probably much easier than most. A lot of military vehicles don't have a lineage to commercial vehicles.

Yet the US Army has been able to maintain HMMVs for well over a decade in the middle of the desert without heavy lifts a "whole garage outfitted for it."

Sounds to me like you guys are pussies ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

Of course they do. There are field maintenance facilities which are effectively fully-equipped garages. Giant warehouse-like buildings. Full range of stuff. Welding, engine lift, custom diagnostics. They also have really huge tow vehicles (or helicopters) for when they break down.

And if they really break down hardcore they just junk them (there are tens of thousands of junked vehicles in the desert) and order a new one. Or if it's an expensive vehicle, ship it back to the U.S. for depot-level refurb.

The U.S. military is, at its core, the biggest logistics supply chain in the world (outside of maybe Amazon or Walmart).

These vehicles are cut loose from that world-class logistics supply chain. Don't underestimate that. .

Huh! I must have missed it sitting in the desert, on the Iraq border, in a tent city with no garage. My HMMV broke down a few times and, each time, was repaired in a tent with no heavy equipment.

Then again, my guys weren't pussies ...

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR

My National Guard unit did nearly all of the work on HMMWVs, Deuce and halfs, and 5 ton trucks on the asphalt parking lot without anything more than the normal tools. That included transmission work, repacking bearings, wheel changing and brake maintenance. The only time the vehicles went into the garage was for engine removal. Sometimes we rolled the Hummers into the garage for the work if it was raining, which was pretty rare given my unit at that time was in San Diego county.

All the talk of HMMWV maintenance is great, but as you noted, these vehicles are not like that. They are based on a standard truck design, specifically to make maintenance easier and cheaper, and so that no special training or license is required to operate them.

I got it, Duffy doesn't like the police, and especially doesn't like the police where he lives. However, I don't see how that has really any bearing on whether a police department should have a single vehicle like this.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

There are 3 tiers of maintenance. You have experience with one tier.

Which tier covers bullet holes and IEDs?

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If there are no dogs in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went. - Will Rogers

Emery's Third Coast Triathlon | Tri Wisconsin Triathlon Team | Push Endurance | GLWR