Take this for what it is worth. I don't have kids but I went to school a lot and have double digit nieces and nephews that have gone to school.

It always seems to me that kids do better in school and make better decisions about what to study if they have skin in the game. The kids that have everything paid for don't seem to be near as intent on making sure they aren't flushing money and it seems on average better choices of major are made if the kid at least thinks they are paying for it.

I don't think it is unreasonable to work during the school year, but not to the extent my wife and I both did. 10+/- hours a week aren't going to hurt anyone. When you are trying juggle FT school and near full time it can be tough though.

If you want to pay for it all, fine. But at least make them think that you are not. Only let them know you are paying for it all after the fact. Even if that means taking out unsubsidized loans and running some interest.

IMHO, children should not live at home after high school. Dorms are a pretty good transition from living at home to living completely on your own. Getting out and making decisions while still being able to get help is an important step in life.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yes I know friends who were told don't worry about the price by private colleges. Often they are so well endowed that they have a lot of scholarship and aide money such that you don't pay any more than going to a state school.

Recently had a student who went to a private college to play lacrosse as under grad and it didn't cost her any more than going to a state school, plus she became friends with the kind of people who have private jets come and pick them up to fly them places for spring break. Her boyfriend was working in Holland for the company of a friend, the friends father bought him the company when he graduated.

I think you're looking too much at the bottom line dollar amount. The value I received in "education" from living in a dorm was well North of the dollar value of the room and board. (I dropped off meal plan after my freshman year when it was required, because it was outrageously overpriced for the quality of the food. Subsequently the food has improved for the snowflakes).

The problem that I see with that is the cost is still a funny money number to someone who is 18. Maybe some kids will do better because they are going to have to pay but I feel those are kids that would do well anyways.

If you walked up to an 18 year old and said this year is gonna cost you 30k, the majority are going to look at you and go okay that's what it costs. The fact that you have to pay that back, add interest add everything else that adults know you're going to have to pay for when you get out of school, isn't on their conceptual radar. Because for the most part it can't be they haven't done it.

So in some aspect I agree it makes logical sense, I just don't think it translates well to most kids at that point.

Two kids in private school. The tuition for each has been more than our mortgage for upwards of ten years now. Our aim for college is to give them the best start in life we can, whatever that might mean. Both want to go into the sciences, which means grad school and beyond. I've no doubt we'll be paying most of their tuition. We're not going to have a strict GPA policy but we're also not going to throw money away. It'll be a semester-by-semester decision to figure out what's best for each of them.

Though I hope it's not the case, I fully expect their tuition to delay my retirement. If it leads to a better life for them and their kids, I can't really think of a better use of our money.

"So in some aspect I agree it makes logical sense, I just don't think it translates well to most kids at that point. "


I forget how dumb 18 year olds are. :) No time like the present to learn I guess.




My wife and I both paid for all of our schooling ourselves. And are still paying. We look at it as the price of admission but certainly not a situation that I would want my lids to have to deal with. Thankfully they will be paid off before we plan to retire (not entirely joking).


But I also have a sister that has paid for everything and one summer let her kids not work while giving them money because the kids couldn't find a job they really wanted. They could find jobs, just not ones they wanted. Fuck that. It worked well for one girl who wanted to be a doctor since she could walk essentially, but not so much for the other. She is doing better now but it took her quite a while to learn how to do the adult deal.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Colleges all play keep up with the Jones' when it comes to student perks which has turned them into 4 year resorts with maid service and a support team of psychologists. Look at their brochures - you'd think every class is held outside under an oak tree while squirrels danced. For as much as colleges want to teach originality, they mostly strive to be carbon copies of each other. I have heard rumblings of some no-frills schools starting up.

I didn't even know parents helped kids pay for college until I was well done and graduated. Lucky bastards. Paying for my own schooling taught me more about hard work and finance than any course could have.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

This!

A neighbor has an awesome therapy Golden Retriever she takes to hospitals to brighten up the patients days. A couple weeks back she had a request to bring the dog to Freshman/Snowflake Orientation at NC State.

OK, I'll take issue with this. Take your typical 18 year old. Never been away from home for significant time. Then they go to school. None of their family, none of their friends, and they just lost their dog.

We take our dogs down to campus and walk around to help keep them socialized. The students just come flocking around talking about how much they miss their dog.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

What's your point? That they're mentally soft?

A couple weeks back she had a request to bring the dog to Freshman/Snowflake Orientation at NC State
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I have certified therapy dogs and we bring them to the local university once a month, sponsored by the counselors/ mental health team. The kids absolutely love it and look forward to the doggie day. It's a nice stress relief in an otherwise hectic environment. In a world world where we are learning so much more about mental health and it's importance, I'm not sure why you would take issue with this.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

This is a problem I am currently meditating on.

I suppose the right answer is the following:
(I realize this sounds weird).

Do what Money wants.
Money is not your slave or spouse:

Money wants to go forth and multiple.

Money does NOT want to indulge in your mid-life consumerist fantasies, it does not want to be destroyed by status symbols ....that soon become garbage.

Nor does Money want to party with teenagers or lay in bed until noon.

It is my job to make sure Money gets what it wants and needs.
And in return....
Money looks after those who treat it well.

Money MIGHT want to go to college, or even to graduate school.
But Money never goes anywhere without an itenarary (or business plan).

Money has options.
Money can go into rental properties, or a franchise, or common stock or bonds.

Money might enjoy college.
But it might not.
It needs to be convinced.

No. That they deserve a break and not every behavior makes someone a snowflake.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I'm of the "Yeah, adulting is hard" and "welcome to reality" school of thought but, then again, I left for basic training a couple weeks after H.S. graduation. Maybe I'm jaded.

Speaking about the military......

I have been pondering this question:

Take a aimless child.
Make him follow orders.
Force him to be organized and structured.
Give him some short term goals.

Will this force him to get his "act" together?


Or will it just make him good at following directions?

I have not done a survey.
But I am NOT convinced it would help.
(I have seen a lot of examples where it didn't).

So any ex-military people....
Were you disorganized and undisciplined?
Did the military help you?
Or were you already doing pretty well and you simply sacrificed a couple of years for a free education?

When did we start referring to people in college as "kids" is what I would like to know. They can drive, smoke, drink, vote and go to war. They're not kids.

My parents were college aged when they moved across the world with zero support, and almost as much money, and definitely no support animals.

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Long Chile was a silly place.

Case study of 1 - read the Hillbilly Elegy - military was where JD Vance had his epiphany...

When did we start referring to people in college as "kids" is what I would like to know. They can drive, smoke, drink, vote and go to war. They're not kids.
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1. I reserve the right to name anyone less than half my age a kid. Same goes for me and people twice my age. I accept the label of kid coming from them with no quarrels.

2. From my perspective, it's all about responsibility and independence and not about an age number. When my parents were 18-19, they were getting married and having kids. Dad went to work at the mill and stayed for the next 30 years. They bought a house at 23 and stopped having kids at 24. Adult. Me at the same age, just starting college. Lived at mommy and daddy's house and 90% of my stuff was there. They paid for my health insurance, food, claimed me on their taxes, etc. Their house was what I called home. Kid.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

Read "Hillbilly Elegy" and it can certainly help (especially for a person with his set of abilities and disadvantages), ... and I know of several examples where it didn't.

Yes. I went to a university that was 8 hours away from home because I got a good scholarship and tuition was quite low and it was a good fit. However it was in a system where most students were a year ahead of me so it was hard in the first few months. My mom says I sounded so stressed on the phone that when I came home for thanksgiving (first time home) she thought I was coming home for good. Three days at home and I was ready to bounce back and it all worked out fine.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

We can afford to pay for our kids schooling outright. We have saved ahead with registered plans as well. The kids are aware but we have always lived a lifestyle below our income and the kids know that as well. S the deal is we pay for undergrad degree and any money you make is yours to buy a house with when you finish or some other worthwhile thing. After that we will re-evaluate. Son is in third year university engineering and is now on a co-op job that will pay 60k this year so now I am thinking I shouldn't have been so generous. But a deal is a deal. Besides he is extremely frugal and works very hard so what have I got to complain about. Daughter is going into grade 12 and could probably get a full ride in US on athletic scholarship but we will likely stay in Canada for various reasons. But she isn't over the top on spending and works hard at school and has summer job sorting cucumbers (not fun). I think if you do a proper job odds are by the time they are college age their character will be pretty well formed. But one never knows. Some kids parents do everything right and things go off the rails and some people have to deal with a spouse that sabatoges things. I think if you are challenged to save for retirement it is quite reasonable that kids pay for part of their education. I was determined to not ask my parents for a dime for my seven years of post secondary because they were not particularly well off and were hard working people I looked up to.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Dropped our oldest son off at UNC-Charlotte (School of Engineering) for his first year. He is covering his books, 1/2 tuition & spending money. If he wants to afford this, he will need to get a job. If wants to have his car on campus ($400+ year for parking), he will have to work more. He's lucky he only gets to pay 1/2 tuition, because if it was up to me, he would be paying 100% since he did squat in terms of applying for scholarships.