If you test the differences between VO2max and threshold, it could be useful to tell you if you need more VO2max work or Threshold work or maybe even easy work.

I can see how that could be argued and I suppose it depends on who's Kool-aid you drink.

I looked at it from another angle. I had a lactate test done on the run and bike to determine my threshold for easy pace. Because they were sub maximal tests I could do both in one day. They measured the first uptick in blood lactate which gave me a threshold for my easy sessions. I found that very valuable. As for the higher end, I use power data from outdoor tests.

Let me ask a dumb question....what is the value of VO2max work for races where we don't hit VO2max?

For example, when I was younger I would ride very hard in an Olympic race, so I might well have spent time at VO2Max. But now that I'm older, I have to dial back the ride so I'll have enough left to run hard. So, during an Olympic ride, I don't think I hit FTP intensity level, much less VO2Max. Does it follow that I shouldn't bother with VO2Max training and should instead spend additional training time at FTP intensity?

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

This is my take as well. I bumped up my training volume to >20hours this winter. Started with a classical base period, LSD. Later blocks of polarised training. For both periods I found my knowledge of the lower threshold extremely helpful. Especially seeing how it moved during base period (~40-50W upwards).

However, I did combined lactate tests and spiroergometry tests. Thresholds were derived by combining both but if I remember correctly both tests yieldet similar results for AeT.

On the other hand, for the upper threshold (however you want to call it) I prefer outdoor testing (though I must admit personally I don't really see much use for this upper threshold)

In training, if your threshold pace is close to VO2max, you would likely benefit from training at efforts near VO2max so that you have room for improvement at threshold.

How close is a matter of opinion.

Anything you derive from FTP testing is simply an estimate of what lactate testing can accurately tell you.
Fine if you are the middle of the bell curve, useless if you are at either end.

Can you say that a different way? I did not understand.

So if Threshold is not close to VO2Max, significantly reduced benefit to training at VO2Max?

"....likely benefit from training near VO2Max so that you have room for improvement at threshold". Training at VO2Max creates "room for improvement" at Threshold? What does that mean?

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

If you had a functional threshold power of 260 watts and your power at VO2max is 280 watts you would likely benefit from doing some work at VO2max.

If you had a functional threshold power of 260 watts and your power at VO2max is 320 watts you would likely benefit most from doing Threshold work.

Hmm. So you're talking about VO2Max as established in a lab where one uses breathing apparatus? The only # I have for V02Max is the one calculated from my FTP, so my delta between FTP and VO2Max is just some generic rule of thumb.

I guess I never really considered that some people might have a VO2Max much higher than FTP, and others might have a VO2Max not much higher than FTP.

If I understand your point correctly, you're saying that since I'm not racing at bike VO2Max, there's not much need to focus on VO2Max in training vs focusing on training at FTP intensity. The caveat being that if VO2Max and FTP happen to be pretty close, then training at VO2Max pretty much is training at FTP. That a correct summation?

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

So lets put this in the context of swimming.

I don't spend any time at Threshold when swimming 1500. I have to keep it dialed back because if I get tired my form will turn to complete crap. Yet, everyone seems enamored with short swimming repeats at intensities far higher than I normally do. I've been thinking these past couple weeks that I need to get with the program and start doing 100m repeats like everyone else talks about. But is a bunch of Threshold work really the best way to improve a 1500m time that doesn't seem to rely on Threshold energy systems?

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

A higher threshold means less effort at lower levels of work also. So by raising threshold everything else comes along with it. If that makes sense.

A person that has an ftp of 350 is going to have a lot easier time doing 250 watts for an hour vs a guy who has 300 watts ftp.

One of the reasons everyone does intervals for swimming is because it's no impact. So you can. If you could run intervals all day to train for a 10k more people would do it. However for almost everyone they would explode their legs real quick.

 

If you get your substrate usage at different intensities and utilize it properly I'd say yes. It would be something I would do pre season and use thru base and again prior to my builds.

You can test for power at VO2max on your bike by doing a 5 min all out effort.

Compare that to your FTP. If it's above 115% of your FTP then do threshold work. If it's closer to 105% then do a session of VO2max work once a week for 5 weeks. After that then test again.

Ok, I'll give that a try. Thanks for the input.

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"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart