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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
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It does make the Kona KPR system really look bad. Joyce wins an IM, 4th in another one and then has to win a third Ironman just to make the start line. As a consistent podium finisher at Kona, that sort of schedule deprives Kona of a title contender from being in her best form. Seems crazy.

As for Marino, for whatever reason he decided that Kona wasn't for him. Good for him. He can pick and choose between any of the Ironman races and give it everything. As a result we get to see an incredible performance from him every year.
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Barlow wrote:
It does make the Kona KPR system really look bad. Joyce wins an IM, 4th in another one and then has to win a third Ironman just to make the start line. As a consistent podium finisher at Kona, that sort of schedule deprives Kona of a title contender from being in her best form. Seems crazy.

As for Marino, for whatever reason he decided that Kona wasn't for him. Good for him. He can pick and choose between any of the Ironman races and give it everything. As a result we get to see an incredible performance from him every year.

If I recall correctly, Marino said that it's not that Kona is not for him (he has finished as high as 3rd), but he's not interested in going there and finishing 3rd or lower. He's also not generally a low 2:4x runner, which means that if he wants to win, he feels like he needs a 5-6 min buffer on the bike (rightly or wrongly). So he has to push the pace from the front and make it happen that way if he wants to contend for the win. Maybe he is wrong and he could win with a more conservative bike and run (ex Fredrik Van Lierde).

Agree on the KPR. I think the problem is the tier down from the Championship races have so few KPR points and there are not 50 women in Kona so the 35 have to race more. Rachel would have gotten in on the July cut with 50 in Kona. That's another topic.
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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One of the solutions that was suggested for this type of situation was to develop a pregnancy point pause, allowing women who become pregnant during a season to roll over the prior year's points into the following year's qualification cycle (obviously, the rules regarding number of races where points accepted, etc. would still apply). Under that scenario, Rachel would've been able to roll her 2015 Kona result into 2017, which would have gotten her qualified much sooner.

It's also a symptom of the fewer slots available to FPROs - if it's 50-50 or 40-40, we wouldn't be having this conversation, either. Scarcity of slots is part of the reason it takes more points for women to toe the line in Kona. You essentially can't afford to have a non-top 3 result at any race as a FPRO.

Anyways.

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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting that he decided 3rd or lower doesn't justify him putting everything into the race. Again, good on him. That can't be any easy decision with all the hype around Kona so hats off to him.

My lasting memory of Marino in Kona is him sat on the roadside clutching a 2L bottle of coke. Was it the year PJ won? I can't remember. I recall he came off the bike with a few minutes lead and then detonated on the run in the lava fields.
He must have done some analysis on his ability to slow down the bike and then run faster and my guess is that he decided it wouldn't work. Or just not make enough of a difference. My guess is that the conditions in Kona put a limit on how fast any given athlete can run and, unless you are overbiking, slowing the bike down doesn't really help anyone run much faster.
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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He also really struggles with the climate - he can't cool his core enough when it's hot and humid. He has had several downright scary experiences so he decided a few years ago Kona is not worth it for him. There are some others who choose to skip Kona because they struggle to perform there - the Wurtele's for example...
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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Barlow wrote:
Interesting that he decided 3rd or lower doesn't justify him putting everything into the race. Again, good on him. That can't be any easy decision with all the hype around Kona so hats off to him.

My lasting memory of Marino in Kona is him sat on the roadside clutching a 2L bottle of coke. Was it the year PJ won? I can't remember. I recall he came off the bike with a few minutes lead and then detonated on the run in the lava fields.
He must have done some analysis on his ability to slow down the bike and then run faster and my guess is that he decided it wouldn't work. Or just not make enough of a difference. My guess is that the conditions in Kona put a limit on how fast any given athlete can run and, unless you are overbiking, slowing the bike down doesn't really help anyone run much faster.
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the year PJ won was the year that Macca slammed into the back of Marino's bike at T1 exit. Marino was stuck using only the lower sprockets on his cluster. That year he was on fire and was literally miles ahead. Marino's bad luck that year was that Kienle flatted just as Kienle caught Marino at Hawi. If those two tag teammed back, they would have 2 more minutes to T2 off less watts. That race (2012) was "all in" for Marino. I was volunteering in Kona that year and had set up the timing station and Hawi for sportstats and had to stay out at Hawi for the first 20 or so to make sure the station was working properly and do manual recording with the crew there "in case" and once we got confirmation we had to drive back to T2 and then we had to go back out on the QueenK to add a new timing equipment to the station by the Energy Lab because that battery had to operate for the entire bike course time all the way to 11 pm. So while setting that one up, we saw the Timex Mini and a minute of so later, Marino followed....then it was forever to Kienle and then forever for the train with PJ, Faris, Romaine Guillaume etc.
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
He also really struggles with the climate - he can't cool his core enough when it's hot and humid. He has had several downright scary experiences so he decided a few years ago Kona is not worth it for him. There are some others who choose to skip Kona because they struggle to perform there - the Wurtele's for example...

I am not sure even Marino can make that leap. He has been 3rd in Kona. How the heck can you get third if you can't handle heat. He can handle heat IF he bikes easier, but he's not going to win biking easier, so it's all or nothing. I can respect that. No way you can get third in Kona if you can't handle heat. They said the same thing about Mark Allen and Macca about handling heat in Kona, until both of these guys dialed down the bike. But both were much faster runners than Marino, so they could dial down the bike and run fast and win.
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that Marino must be able to handle heat to some degree. Aside form Kona, IM Austria can get pretty hot too and he's never had any issue there. But I wonder if he can't handle it to the same degree as say Crowie or kienle. Sindballe was able to get third in Kona and he had a similar racing strategy to Marino. Sinballe struggled with heat and had to go to great lengths to manage the heat to get his podium spot. Do you remember him running one year with a surgical glove to keep ice on his hand?

I raced in IMFF in 2015 when it was 38C. Being from the UK I've never experienced heat like that. For me it was scary hot and I actually considered stepping off the start line. A huge percentage of athletes either chose not to race or didn't finish. When I saw that Frodo set a course record on that day I couldn't believe it. It's like the heat just had no effect on his performance. I just have no explanation for how the top guys could run that fast on that day.
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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Thomas Gerlach wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Marino is here in Canada racing IM Tremblant. He actually came over to Tremblant 3 weeks ago and has been hanging out locally doing his last prep. Right now he is leading the race just before climbing up Duplesis averaging over 40 kph. Will be interesting to see his first half split. I suspect he goes through the halfway just around 2:12 speed and clocks a sub 4:30.


Marino is just on a whole other level. At this point he is basically good enough to contend at Kona, but has decided it is not in his best financial interest to do so. Barring any mech I can't see Marino losing. Big Sexy is riding well, Evoe is riding well. Both have a lot of passion for Ironman Louisville and I am sure they are motivated as ever with it being a pro race this year.

As an aside, Antoine is a very good swimmer but he got cut up by Lauren Brandon by 4 minutes. Anyone know if the pros are wearing wetsuits. I have talked to Antoine in the past about maybe dialing down the swim, maybe he is doing that specifically or maybe just not his day.

Ya, Antoine had fastest male pro time of 53:17 vs Lauren's 49:34, thus putting her 3:43 ahead of all the male pros. Acc to the results, she had the fastest swim of the day so no AG-ers beat her. Also, she had the fastest bike (5:02) of all the women and led by 12:24 off the bike. Unfortunately, her run (3:30) wasn't quite up to par so she ended up 4th among the women in 9:27.

Also, "Big Sexy" is a real person??? In all my years of reading ST, I did not know this; who is he???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
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As for Marino, for whatever reason he decided that Kona wasn't for him. Good for him. He can pick and choose between any of the Ironman races and give it everything. As a result we get to see an incredible performance from him every year.


For the IRONMAN Hawaii obsessed Age Group crowd, I know this is always hard to understand - Kona is NOT the race for everyone.

Marino has done well there (best finish 3rd I believe), but at this stage of his career, he has to ask himself as a true competitor - can I go better than that? Obviously, and rightly so, impacting his decision has been a few blow-ups that he has had there. Perhaps it is not the race for him!

Go to other of the bigger IM races around the worl, with good prize purses, and then structuring your sponsorship relations and bonuses around those races, from a Professional's perspective makes perfect sense.

I'll never forget the sight of Kenny Souza pulled over at the side of the road in 1993. At the time, Souza was the greatest duathlete on the planet. He could run and cycle faster than anyone. His plan - get through the swim and then crush it on the bike/run. He passed me on the bike that year on the way out to Hawi like I was standing still. But then, I rode by him, slumped down at the side of the road, not looking good at all somewhere between Waikoloa and the airport on the way back into town. Another who never went well at Kona was Simon Lessing - arguably one of the greatest triathletes of all time. He tried several time, and then concluded, that the race was just not for him.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IM Tremblant race day: Marino vs the rest? [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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So Marino ran a bottle on the downtube and seattube.

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Last edited by: stevej: Aug 21, 17 13:43
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