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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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And this isn't happening now? Also if legal an athlete can go to the press and say the team is endangering their lives. They will have a safety net and a place to insure their safety. Right now they don't have that.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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not to the extent that it would be if it were legal and everything was allowed.

You seriously think that young, invulerable athletes looking for an edge would go and say "hey, this is endangering our lives"?

Ok, suppose they do say "this is endangering our lives". What then? Say "too bad"? or prohibit certain practices and chemicals from use in training or competition?

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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Certain practices might be deemed not legal because of the danger. Also there is a lot of power when someone says, "I will die." The teams will be looking to keep the people healthy and alive because your whole team dying not only looks bad but is incredibly expensive. Do you honestly think teams are going to spend a ton of money on someone to then jack him up until he dies? Bad business.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
Because that argument is so stupid it broke my balls. Really? You going to stand by that?

Hey, I think it's stupid too. Except it's simply a logical extension of:

Tibbsy wrote:
It is already happening. There is already pressure to dope. To reach the top you dope. It is futile to put on your blinders and say, "Because I think it is wrong it is not happening. The rules say it won't happen so it isn't." Nothing gets better in the shadows. Bring it to the light. This will make for better health monitoring and safer practices. Again. What you are hoping to avoid is already happening.

and

Tibbsy wrote:
Let the floodgates open. Truth is always better than lying. As far as there are rules, yeah change the rules.

...or are you not aware that 'mechanical doping' is already a thing as well...?

No less stupid than the "If we outlaw guns, only outlaws will have guns" mantra... Sure there's some truth to it, but it's hardly an intelligent argument towards formulating any meaningful policy. Don't we still bar convicted felons from owning firearms? Why? They've already demonstrated contempt for the law before. I mean, people routinely run red lights all day, every day ~ why even bother having any traffic controls then? Let's just throw up our hands since we obviously will never completely eliminate cheating, right?

Of all the tired & weak arguments, surely "It's already happening anyway" has gotta rate at the top.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [OneGoodLeg] [ In reply to ]
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We have motorcycle racing. If it is desired there will be electric bike races. These are mechanical which is different from human powered.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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There seem to be a lot of sports already that are willing to have no line in terms of the danger they will let competitors put themselves in. Take a look at some of the extreme sports, half-pipe snowboarding, etc. It's basically go higher and faster until you break your neck, which a lot of them do.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Dapper Dan] [ In reply to ]
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Yes.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Tibbsy wrote:
We have motorcycle racing. If it is desired there will be electric bike races. These are mechanical which is different from human powered.

And you're proving the point. We have races where people can use a motor legally, and yet there are still some who choose to cheat. By making it a free for all, you just end up eliminating the human powered races in favour of the motorized ones

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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Except no. If we are going to play this dumb game then nothing means anything. We can take anything to an extreme. Anything. This line of argument is nonsense
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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Basically, the only way your way "works", and I put "works" in air quotes for a reason, is to take it to the extreme and allow literally anything. Once you put in rules of any sort then people will find ways to break them.

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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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Ok. This is not a rational argument. This is you appealing to emotions to prove your point. You are bypassing my points and going straight to chaos. You have changed the field of play which bullshit. Gimme a minute to lost my points.
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Re: Lance Armstrong. Witch hunt? [Tibbsy] [ In reply to ]
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- Bicycle racing is a human powered sport. This has been agreed upon since the beginning of the sport. Adding an engine makes a motorcycle and they already race those.

- The early history of the sport had cyclist using PEDs openly. They would tell the press what they took. It already has a history in the sport.

- Doping happens because people want the performances and stories. The performance boost from the drugs provides greater entertainment for the fans which drives sponsorship dollars. This increases the pay and fame of the riders encouraging doping. Non dope performances are boring and now one wants to see them.

- Because taking PEDs is against the rules it is done in the dark. The doctors have no ethics which means they are more likely to do things that endanger the athlete. Their desire not to be caught leads to risky behaviors that don't have to happen if it was done in the open.

- We want the performances. If you saw we don't you are wrong. Lance wouldn't be a god to many if he would have had a mediocre career after his cancer. He is loved because he won. Demanding the performances but making the athletes cheat to give them us is hypocrisy at the highest.
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