low carb diet and training.

Aug 5, 17 15:17

Post #1 of 15 (3122 views)

Hi folks,

Bit of background... started the Blood Sugar diet - https://thebloodsugardiet.com/ - 4 weeks ago in an attempt to reset my body and get rid of Type 2 diabetes for good / a while. Started at 102Kg where !'ve been for over 2 years, whilst running c.1200Km / year + biking 2k. 179cm tall and 57 yo. Have just rebuilt my Softride, so that'll give you some idea since I competed regularly!

The diet has worked where the training never did - lost 8Kg so far and counting. The problem I'm having is that my training has gone to pot, as I have no energy on the low carb, 800cal / day diet. It is getting better than before, but even now I can do about 3km before lapsing into limp home mode, and 7k and I'm walking whereas before 10Km was something I could always finish strongly before, and a half marathon was runnable.

I'm taking on board devashish_paul's comments that the only way to run faster is to lose weight and pile the miles on. So if I may, a few questions that I'd love your input on:

- is there any way to improve the quality of my running over the next 4 weeks?
- how long will it take to bounce back at the end of the diet? I have a 10k booked for 5 days after completion
- if I try to do 5 runs a week what's the best pattern - 4 x medium distance then a day's rest around a long one?

Many thanks,

Steve

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 15:37

Post #2 of 15 (3100 views)

Training on 800cal a day is a recipe for disaster.

If you want to get faster and lose weight you're going about it wrong, you're starving your body while pushing it hard. There is no need to limit your calories that much regardless of your weight.

Diet is key to losing weight but you've taken it to the extreme, you're going to end up getting weaker and probably frequently getting sick.

You need to figure out what your caloric intake for your current weight is and then aim for an appropriate deficit if your goal is to lose weight.

Last edited by: Tifosi01: Aug 5, 17 15:44

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 15:40

Post #3 of 15 (3094 views)

800Cal/day isn't enough. I'd double that. Sounds like you're trying to lose fat too fast. Your body will go into starvation mode and fight you every step of the way. Eventually your body will win and you'll binge eat. Then you'll be depressed for being a "failure". Being bummed out, you'll over-eat because nothing makes you feel better than ice cream.

Lose weight more gradually. Find a calorie deficit that is sustainable. Something like 500Cal/day. You'll lose a lb of blubber each week, it won't make your body fight you, so it's sustainable.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Re: low carb diet and training. [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 15:48

Post #4 of 15 (3081 views)

RangerGress wrote:

800Cal/day isn't enough. I'd double that. Sounds like you're trying to lose fat too fast. Your body will go into starvation mode and fight you every step of the way. Eventually your body will win and you'll binge eat. Then you'll be depressed for being a "failure". Being bummed out, you'll over-eat because nothing makes you feel better than ice cream.

Lose weight more gradually. Find a calorie deficit that is sustainable. Something like 500Cal/day. You'll lose a lb of blubber each week, it won't make your body fight you, so it's sustainable.

This. I lost 120 lb over the course of 2 years (80 lb year 1, 40 lb year 2) and have kept it off for over 7 years. Prior to that I did low carb several times, would lose some weight, then gain it all back when I stopped. A diet isn't supposed to be a short-term thing, it's supposed to be a lifestyle. Slow and steady wins the race.

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 16:22

Post #5 of 15 (3042 views)

I agree, 800 calories a day is not enough.

You can do a lot of good for diabetes by simply eliminating carbs/sugar and focussing on natural fats. Eating a diet of fresh vegetables and natural fats (eggs, nuts, olive oil, avocados, butter, cream, salmon) and eliminating sugar, bread, rice, corn, potatoes will do wonders for high blood sugar and the calories will give you lots of energy to exercise. Eat slowly and in small portions and you can get plenty of calories from these foods and have lots of energy to work out. No need to count calories.

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 16:34

Post #6 of 15 (3027 views)

I went from 105 Kilos to 78 kilos without ever going below 1500 calories a day. When I started, I was eating 2200 calories a day. Didn't get to 1500-1800 cal/day bracket until I was under 85 kilos. Diet was lowish carb, but not completely carb-adverse. Took me about 14 months. I dropped the first 10 kilos in about a month, but from there it was slow but steady progress. "Rebounded" a bit, but have maintained low 80's for two additional years, other than a brief bubble into the mid 80's when I was injured and couldn't swim/bike/run for a while.

800 cal a day, plus working out, doesn't sound healthy. Is your doctor on board with what you're doing?

"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Re: low carb diet and training. [dmgt83] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 16:37

Post #7 of 15 (3020 views)

dmgt83 wrote:

I lost 120 lb over the course of 2 years (80 lb year 1, 40 lb year 2) and have kept it off for over 7 years. Prior to that I did low carb several times, would lose some weight, then gain it all back when I stopped. A diet isn't supposed to be a short-term thing, it's supposed to be a lifestyle. Slow and steady wins the race.

This *is* supposed to be a short term thing: 2 months on the premise that this clears the fat from your organs and that in turn resets insulin generation. I'm prepared to put up with this for 2 months in the hope that the science behind it works for me. After that, I'll probably go on to a 5:2 diet, as I want some kind of a social life!

Are you suggesting that I can have the same effect on more calories and aim off by the approx amount I burn exercising?

Thanks for the feedback all.

EDIT: Yes, my doc is taking an active interest, and another armful of blood will be going to the lab next week.

Last edited by: sholdowa: Aug 5, 17 16:39

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 17:16

Post #8 of 15 (2999 views)

sholdowa wrote:

This *is* supposed to be a short term thing: 2 months on the premise that this clears the fat from your organs and that in turn resets insulin generation. I'm prepared to put up with this for 2 months in the hope that the science behind it works for me. After that, I'll probably go on to a 5:2 diet, as I want some kind of a social life!

Are you suggesting that I can have the same effect on more calories and aim off by the approx amount I burn exercising?

Screw that plan. Starvation isn't good for you. Double not good if you're getting lots of exercise.

I'm not suggesting "that". I'm suggesting a smaller daily calorie deficit. Do this slow. You didn't get fat in 2 months so you're not going to get lean in 2 months. This plan has to be sustainable or you "won't" sustain it. Then you'll feel like shit for falling off the diet. Then you'll go buy ice cream. Which, after consuming it, will just make you feel worse.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart

Re: low carb diet and training. [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 17:38

Post #9 of 15 (2981 views)

This is suicide. High carb low fat whole foods bro.

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 18:26

Post #10 of 15 (2936 views)

As a fellow diabetic (Type 1) who has been on very low carb / ketogenic for 5 years now, I'm happy to see you doing the low carb route, but indeed 800kcal is just not sustainable especially as you are still training.

I'm also afraid you can't quite get rid of T2D for a while, but can easily keep your blood glucose levels at normal range via diet and exercise. So instead of rushing all of this, look into it as something you will have to do for the rest of your life. The damage has been done over years, you will also need years to fix it.

Suggest you check these 2 links for some inspiration:
World Champion swimmer (sprinter) Adam Peaty on LC:
My own story as a T1D and triathlete on Keto, how I went to 7% A1C to 5.3% while racing: http://www.ironguides.net/...-carb-high-fat-diet/

--
Vinnie Santana, Multisport Coach
http://www.ironguides.net
* * * Your best is our business. * * *

Re: low carb diet and training. [RangerGress] [ In reply to ]

Aug 5, 17 21:25

Post #11 of 15 (2831 views)

About 200 kcals of deficit per day is safe, based on my personal experience. Anything more than that pushes me into the territory where I am not that great to be around.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Re: low carb diet and training. [bretzky] [ In reply to ]

Aug 6, 17 1:22

Post #12 of 15 (2765 views)

bretzky wrote:

This is suicide. High carb low fat whole foods bro.

Carbs release hormones that can be quite benefitial. Insulin, for example, is powerfully anabolic. I don't know why anyone would avoid it intantionally.

Ketogenic diets lead to bad gut flora because of not enough fiber.

And I think it could mess up your metabolism.

I know that are success stories out there, but I am not sure if that works long term.

Short term it works for sure to lose weicht. But I don't know if it's a good idea to let your body forget how to use carbs.

10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 6, 17 4:17

Post #13 of 15 (2663 views)

you are being an idiot .. are you a 45 kilo inactive girl? then 800 calories is a ridiculous intake while trying to train. I do understand low carb and what you are trying to do for you blood sugar levels, but cutting calories is not the answer. To sustain energy your body still requires calories, which means if cutting carbs then you need to add another energy source to keep your calories at a level necessary to be able to train without depleting your system to the point of injury. Add some calories in the form of fats, healthy fats, not greasy chips and pastries but avocadoes and high fat fish, butter, cream and cheeses, higher fat meats, eggs etc.

Re: low carb diet and training. [sholdowa] [ In reply to ]

Aug 6, 17 7:48

Post #14 of 15 (2551 views)

sholdowa wrote:

This *is* supposed to be a short term thing: 2 months on the premise that this clears the fat from your organs and that in turn resets insulin generation. I'm prepared to put up with this for 2 months in the hope that the science behind it works for me. After that, I'll probably go on to a 5:2 diet, as I want some kind of a social life!

Are you suggesting that I can have the same effect on more calories and aim off by the approx amount I burn exercising?

Thanks for the feedback all.

EDIT: Yes, my doc is taking an active interest, and another armful of blood will be going to the lab next week.

First, usual disclaimers about me not being a doctor or nutritionist, and I'm not diabetic and know very little about the disease or how to manage it.

All that said, my $0.02:
- Glad to hear your doctor is involved
- 800 Cal/day still sounds way too low, even if for only 2 months, and especially while trying to train. At a minimum I would think you would want to set your intake so that your deficit is constant (i.e. if you're shooting for a 1,200 Cal/day deficit, eat to that, not 800 Cal).
- If you do decide to see this through for 2 months, be very careful about how you transition off. For me when I came off low carb plans I didn't reintroduce carbs slowly like you're supposed to and ended up losing all the gains I made.

Good luck to you, regardless of how you decide to proceed!

Re: low carb diet and training. [ToBeasy] [ In reply to ]

Aug 6, 17 13:21

Post #15 of 15 (2411 views)

ToBeasy wrote:

bretzky wrote:

This is suicide. High carb low fat whole foods bro.

Carbs release hormones that can be quite benefitial. Insulin, for example, is powerfully anabolic. I don't know why anyone would avoid it intantionally.

Ketogenic diets lead to bad gut flora because of not enough fiber.

And I think it could mess up your metabolism.

I know that are success stories out there, but I am not sure if that works long term.

Short term it works for sure to lose weicht. But I don't know if it's a good idea to let your body forget how to use carbs.

false on gut flora. it can feed off off MCT saturated fats

Fenton wrote:

a "success" sign for being in ketosis, which is desired by LCHF dieting people, is also a slight smell of acetone in your breath, which is also a sign of ketoacidosis (a life threatening condition) which can happen if you're diabetic and your metabolism goes belly up. So I doubt this is beneficial in the long run, if not even fucks you up for good eventually.

wonder why "bullet proof coffee" is a LCHF thing? probably the only way for your brain to "function" running low on glucose.

ToBeasy wrote:

bretzky wrote:

This is suicide. High carb low fat whole foods bro.

Carbs release hormones that can be quite benefitial. Insulin, for example, is powerfully anabolic. I don't know why anyone would avoid it intantionally.

Ketogenic diets lead to bad gut flora because of not enough fiber.

And I think it could mess up your metabolism.

I know that are success stories out there, but I am not sure if that works long term.

Short term it works for sure to lose weicht. But I don't know if it's a good idea to let your body forget how to use carbs.

http://www.ketogenic-diet-resource.com/ketoacidosis.html

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