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Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir?
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I've lived in Connecticut, in the Groton/New London area. Outside of New Haven and Hartford -- which are your typical big cities (and there's nothing wrong with that, per se) -- the state is as beautiful as it gets in southern New England. I've also lived in Newport, Rhode Island for a few years, so I know what I'm talking about when it comes to that part of the northeast.

But Connecticut is apparently fast becoming a fiscal train wreck, even though it's one of the richest states in the nation. Unfortunately, the Nutmeg State is also at $74 billion in debt and is teetering on the edge of being in worse financial shape than Puerto Rico:

"Connecticut, the richest state in the nation, has racked up $74 billion in debt. Its finances have more in common with Puerto Rico than Massachusetts, as the home of America’s financial wizards struggles to pay off its massive obligations big as the bills com due on decades of mismanagement.

While ballooning payments for public employees’ guaranteed pension and health benefits for public employees and teachers are the main cause of Connecticut’s fiscal misery, the state continued borrowing with the abandon of a teenager let loose in a Forever 21 with her parent’s credit card. Jobs lost during the recession have not returned. Its youth and future tax base is fleeing for New York and Boston. Fortune 500 companies are following them out of town.

And it could get worse before it gets better."

It all appears to come down to generous (some would say overly generous) state employees' pension plans combined with unrestrained borrowing against anticipated future revenues. But was doing so all that smart? Not looking that way at present.

Why Connecticut Is Collapsing

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Why don't we add most of the Northern & Mid-Atlantic States from MA-WI, and throw in CA as well?
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [EndlessH2O] [ In reply to ]
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EndlessH2O wrote:
Why don't we add most of the Northern & Mid-Atlantic States from MA-WI, and throw in CA as well?

Yeah, it's getting a little ugly out there, for sure.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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7 yrs and I'm outta here.

Too many people, too expensive, bad weather and shitty people.
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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big kahuna wrote:
EndlessH2O wrote:
Why don't we add most of the Northern & Mid-Atlantic States from MA-WI, and throw in CA as well?

Yeah, it's getting a little ugly out there, for sure.

I feel for the millennials. They hit crazy college cost and debt, bad economy on graduation and soon will get parents with massive money problems as pensions implode. Throw in some Medicare/ Medicaid and social security issues and they just drew a short stick timing wise.
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [Moonrocket] [ In reply to ]
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Moonrocket wrote:
big kahuna wrote:
EndlessH2O wrote:
Why don't we add most of the Northern & Mid-Atlantic States from MA-WI, and throw in CA as well?


Yeah, it's getting a little ugly out there, for sure.


I feel for the millennials. They hit crazy college cost and debt, bad economy on graduation and soon will get parents with massive money problems as pensions implode. Throw in some Medicare/ Medicaid and social security issues and they just drew a short stick timing wise.

Yes. And their inheritance has been spent by wastrels and blaggards. Well, we reap what we sow. And the reaping may be fierce if we don't set our house in order immediately.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I have a feeling that there's more of this to come. Connecticut isn't even in the bottom 10 of financial woes.

https://www.mercatus.org/statefiscalrankings









Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Connecticut pop 3.5 million debt 74 billion. Ontar I owe pop 13 million debt 290 billion. But we do have some Moose we could sell.

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [len] [ In reply to ]
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len wrote:
Connecticut pop 3.5 million debt 74 billion. Ontar I owe pop 13 million debt 290 billion. But we do have some Moose we could sell.

If it's Moosehead lager, count me in on the buyer side, buddy. ;-)

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Groton is a big city? Shirley you jest.
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I feel for the millennials. They hit crazy college cost and debt, bad economy on graduation and soon will get parents with massive money problems as pensions implode. Throw in some Medicare/ Medicaid and social security issues and they just drew a short stick timing wise.[/quote]

Yes. And their inheritance has been spent by wastrels and blaggards. Well, we reap what we sow. And the reaping may be fierce if we don't set our house in order immediately.[/quote]
The average college debt for a 2016 grad is about $37,000. These cry-babies are whining about that but they would gladly spend that for a car or on clothes and vacations all while complaining that they don't make enough money at their starter jobs. Guess what? Neither did we? So now the complaint is that their parents are wasting these little pansies inheritance?! Good, they don't deserve it and would have a lot of nerve expecting anything.


Check my signature line. I'm glad that my son doesn't need and doesn't expect anything from me when I die!

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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     We would probably do better with the lager than the animals lol. Moosehead is good its from New Brunswick although they might have licensed it to breweries in Ont. I will have to go to the beerstore and do some "research"..


big kahuna wrote:
len wrote:
Connecticut pop 3.5 million debt 74 billion. Ontar I owe pop 13 million debt 290 billion. But we do have some Moose we could sell.


If it's Moosehead lager, count me in on the buyer side, buddy. ;-)

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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The main cause is the governor is incompetent and has created a huge mess for the next one.

He's consistently been driving businesses out (G.E. and the gun manufacturers as examples), over regulating (his gun laws), and he loves to spend as noted in your post.

The day I retire - I'm out of here.
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [windywave] [ In reply to ]
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windywave wrote:
Groton is a big city? Shirley you jest.

I'm not. And don't call me Shirley. ;-)

Hey, we called it "Rotten Groton" for a reason. And New London actually had a seedy part of town. I call that real progress. LOL!

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]
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Moonrocket wrote:
I feel for the millennials. They hit crazy college cost and debt, bad economy on graduation and soon will get parents with massive money problems as pensions implode. Throw in some Medicare/ Medicaid and social security issues and they just drew a short stick timing wise.


big kahuna wrote:
Yes. And their inheritance has been spent by wastrels and blaggards. Well, we reap what we sow. And the reaping may be fierce if we don't set our house in order immediately.


Sweeny wrote:
The average college debt for a 2016 grad is about $37,000. These cry-babies are whining about that but they would gladly spend that for a car or on clothes and vacations all while complaining that they don't make enough money at their starter jobs. Guess what? Neither did we? So now the complaint is that their parents are wasting these little pansies inheritance?! Good, they don't deserve it and would have a lot of nerve expecting anything.

Check my signature line. I'm glad that my son doesn't need and doesn't expect anything from me when I die!


The 'inheritance' I was referring to is a 'societal inheritance' in the form of a stable Social Security system, the opportunity to do better than one's parents did, a non-crushing national debt load and so forth. All the things that were passed from generation to generation right up to the Baby ("Me Generation") Boomers (disclosure, I'm a late-generation Boomer), who all apparently seem fixated on acting as young as possible and on not doing much to pass along something of worth, societally speaking, to later generations.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Jul 31, 17 14:42
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]
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B.McMaster wrote:
The main cause is the governor is incompetent and has created a huge mess for the next one.

He's consistently been driving businesses out (G.E. and the gun manufacturers as examples), over regulating (his gun laws), and he loves to spend as noted in your post.

The day I retire - I'm out of here.


Speaking of one of your senators... ;-)

Chris Murphy on Twitter: "Last night proved, once again, that there is no anxiety or sadness or fear you feel right now that cannot be cured by political action."

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Jul 31, 17 14:58
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [EndlessH2O] [ In reply to ]
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and throw in CA as well? //

What is wrong with CA? We have been doing very nicely lately, and the future looks pretty good. We are slowly dealing with the pension problem, getting better, not worse. We are living within budgets and even banking surpluses. Worst thing I can say is that this bullet train thing has been an albatross around our necks. And the water thing has to be addressed, but thanks to the last drought we have put a lot of positive measures in place. We probably need a few more back up against the wall emergencies to make us act, but each time we seem to go the right direction. Republicans are even working with the Dems now, CA is like it own little world nation, like 5th in the world now?
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [ In reply to ]
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The voters like announcements re. the goodies the politicians will buy for them. If voters reliably rewarded austerity measures, every politician in the nation would be trampling their peers to prove themselves the most dedicated spendthrift. So we get big spenders and crisis. The feds will bail out the states in crisis just like they've done for a city or two. Of course, that not only teaches cities and states that they can keep spending w/o consequence, but also worsens the ultimate reckoning. All bad.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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Was there ever a time when these pension plans were economically viable? Everytime I hear a city, county, state, govt entity going broke, you need to look no further than pension plans. What was the reasoning behind these plans?
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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nhunter344 wrote:
Was there ever a time when these pension plans were economically viable? Everytime I hear a city, county, state, govt entity going broke, you need to look no further than pension plans. What was the reasoning behind these plans?
Giving the voters goodies helps you keep your job. The claims that the pension plans will explode in 20yrs don't bother you much because you're only planning on being a politician for 19yrs. Besides, no one really looks back at voting records to determine who it was that voted for the expensive programs that the voters can't now afford.

Lets look back at who voted for the inefficient programs that cost the tax payer big dollars. I'll be in charge of defining "inefficient" and "big". Then we raid the bank accounts of those that voted for the program. That would create personal consequences for putting the taxpayer in debt. Problem fixed.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [nhunter344] [ In reply to ]
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Another aspect of the local government pension issue is that pension increases in lieu of current employee pay represent a way of keeping a lid on the current budget. States and localities that are strapped for cash but think that things will be better in the future will frequently try to defer costs. When the returns on pension funds are strong, contributions are made as planned, and the actuarial assumptions are not unreasonable, this approach can be successful. This may just be a more optimistic view of the same point Ranger makes, however. The problem is when the assumptions are not in line with actual returns, or when the political pressure on elected officials to increase pension benefits is so great that the assumptions and funding plans just become unreasonable.

If you like this stuff (and I do), it's worth comparing the Mercatus rankings in Tri-Banter's earlier post with the recent Pew Trusts report on state finances, which includes the credit ratings for all the states (table starts on page 10). The outcomes are very different. For example, it shows Maryland (#46 according to Mercatus) as having a higher rating than North Dakota (#2). Looking at the Mercatus methodology briefly, the rating agencies seem stronger to me. Mercatus seems to overweight cash on hand and budget surpluses, which are always nice to have, but they also mean that tax receipts are significantly exceeding spending.
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [Little Joe] [ In reply to ]
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Little Joe wrote:
Another aspect of the local government pension issue is that pension increases in lieu of current employee pay represent a way of keeping a lid on the current budget. States and localities that are strapped for cash but think that things will be better in the future will frequently try to defer costs. When the returns on pension funds are strong, contributions are made as planned, and the actuarial assumptions are not unreasonable, this approach can be successful. This may just be a more optimistic view of the same point Ranger makes, however. The problem is when the assumptions are not in line with actual returns, or when the political pressure on elected officials to increase pension benefits is so great that the assumptions and funding plans just become unreasonable.

If you like this stuff (and I do), it's worth comparing the Mercatus rankings in Tri-Banter's earlier post with the recent Pew Trusts report on state finances, which includes the credit ratings for all the states (table starts on page 10). The outcomes are very different. For example, it shows Maryland (#46 according to Mercatus) as having a higher rating than North Dakota (#2). Looking at the Mercatus methodology briefly, the rating agencies seem stronger to me. Mercatus seems to overweight cash on hand and budget surpluses, which are always nice to have, but they also mean that tax receipts are significantly exceeding spending.

I think in the civilian sector, employee pensions are considered a liability on the books of the companies offering them. I don't think that applies in government accounting, though. At least, I'm pretty sure it doesn't at the federal level, simply because the feds can always print more cash.

Government accounting is a bit different than the generally accepted accounting principles set by the Financial Standards Accounting Board, so perhaps the methodologies used to gauge a government entity's fiscal health, such as a state's fiscal health, are inadequate to the task? All I know is that if I had unfunded promises, or liabilities, related to future pension payouts that loomed as far as the eye could see I'd be a bit worried.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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''The 'inheritance' I was referring to is a 'societal inheritance' in the form of a stable Social Security system, the opportunity to do better than one's parents did, a non-crushing national debt load and so forth. All the things that were passed from generation to generation right up to the Baby ("Me Generation") Boomers (disclosure, I'm a late-generation Boomer), who all apparently seem fixated on acting as young as possible and on not doing much to pass along something of worth, societally speaking, to later generations.




I suppose that I'm an example of whom you are whining about. I'm a 67 year old, life long Heavy Construction Carpenter. I worked up and down the East Coast and spent the last 20 work years as a foreman for one of the biggest companies in NYC. I made a lot of money and maxed out my social security payment almost every year. My wife made twice what I made and stopped working at 57. We took care of our money and we have a bundle. Right now my wife has no income and we live on my pension, ssi, and our savings. In three years she will get ssi and at the same time I will have to start taking annuity pay-outs.


So, as I see your complaint, you think I'm taking something from you. How is that? Everything I have, I've worked very hard for. Are you expecting me to give up my ssi because I saved my money?


Also, you have every opportunity to live as well as you are willing to work for. Weather or not that is better than you parents is up to you. I think it's a problem of perception. Your parents are living well in their 50's and 60's, once they got rid of you. They started out just as broke as everyone else. Today's young people seem to expect to start out at that high level at their first job. A lot of them think an entry level job is below them and that the American Dream is dead. I don't hear that from the children of immigrants. They go to work and find the American Dream





---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]
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Sweeney wrote:
''The 'inheritance' I was referring to is a 'societal inheritance' in the form of a stable Social Security system, the opportunity to do better than one's parents did, a non-crushing national debt load and so forth. All the things that were passed from generation to generation right up to the Baby ("Me Generation") Boomers (disclosure, I'm a late-generation Boomer), who all apparently seem fixated on acting as young as possible and on not doing much to pass along something of worth, societally speaking, to later generations.




I suppose that I'm an example of whom you are whining about. I'm a 67 year old, life long Heavy Construction Carpenter. I worked up and down the East Coast and spent the last 20 work years as a foreman for one of the biggest companies in NYC. I made a lot of money and maxed out my social security payment almost every year. My wife made twice what I made and stopped working at 57. We took care of our money and we have a bundle. Right now my wife has no income and we live on my pension, ssi, and our savings. In three years she will get ssi and at the same time I will have to start taking annuity pay-outs.


So, as I see your complaint, you think I'm taking something from you. How is that? Everything I have, I've worked very hard for. Are you expecting me to give up my ssi because I saved my money?


Also, you have every opportunity to live as well as you are willing to work for. Weather or not that is better than you parents is up to you. I think it's a problem of perception. Your parents are living well in their 50's and 60's, once they got rid of you. They started out just as broke as everyone else. Today's young people seem to expect to start out at that high level at their first job. A lot of them think an entry level job is below them and that the American Dream is dead. I don't hear that from the children of immigrants. They go to work and find the American Dream


I understand what you're saying, and you make good points. I'm 57 years old and I've been working since I was 10 (when I shined shoes in front of pool halls that were fronts for a bookie, and in front of old Tiger Stadium during baseball season, delivered papers, swept out movie theaters, pushed burgers at Mickey Ds, gas jockeyed at a full-service gas station, etc.). I went into the military after high school and stayed there for a full, and very physically demanding (and sometimes hazardous), career. Retired from that, and then went straight to work in the civilian sector, saving and planning for the day when I finally retire.

I also came from a blue-collar household where both parents were union members (my father was a journeyman construction ironworker for more than a decade before securing an electrician's apprenticeship and advancing to master electrician, including in the UAW (GM) and then IBEW (for the city of Detroit. ). There's a strong ethic in our family towards doing all the things you describe yourself as doing. So I can confidently say that I'm not "whining" about my (and yours, apparently) lot in life and what awaits me at retirement.

However, there's almost no argument that Boomers -- as a generational cohort -- are largely responsible for creating a set of circumstances that are going to negatively impact later generations (Gen X and Millennials and, possibly, millennials' progeny) mostly through fiscal imprudence and wasteful habits across the board. Not for nothing are Boomers (and you are I are one of those ;-) called the "Me Generation." Even the Washington Post has said in the past that Boomers "have been a disaster for America." Read the article. It's partly a lament from a Gen Xer about Donald Trump being the greatest mistake of the Boom generation but it's also about the profligacy and wasteful spending Boomers, once they grabbed the reins of power, engaged in.

Baby boomers have been a disaster for America, and Trump is their biggest mistake yet - The Washington Post

What's funny is that Boomers probably inherited a historic amount of wealth from previous generations -- something like $11.6 TRILLION by some estimates. But where has much of it gone? Not really all that sure, speaking on a generational basis. Individually? Of course there are bright spots -- sticking out like a 75-watt bulb, glowing brightly within a 10-square-mile expanse of darkness -- but overall? We're in trouble. And much of that trouble can be laid squarely at the feet of our generation, unfortunately.

"Politics is just show business for ugly people."
Last edited by: big kahuna: Aug 2, 17 5:31
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Re: Connecticut Set to Join Illinois, Puerto Rico in the Bankruptcy Choir? [big kahuna] [ In reply to ]
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I'd argue the problem isn't the Boomers, and I think I'm in the last "Boomer" year group. I think the problem is comfort, leisure time, decadence, that sort of thing.

Until the 50's, almost all Americans lived a pretty hard-scrabble existence. Our current relatively comfortable and safe environment is a new creation. We reacted to this by obsessing over all sort of (mostly) worthy projects that, prior to the 50's, few had the spare mental/emotional bandwidth for.

We told the government to spend itself into debtors prison funding those worthy projects. Entitlement spending, nanny-state, regulatory nightmare, world's policeman, all of that.

So now we're learning what happens when humans get comfort, safety, and leisure time. They pull out their credit card and ruin themselves.

The Boomers deserve the blame because, presumably, their "Greatest" parents taught them thrift and personal responsibility. That said, the later generations escape blame only because they've not yet had a chance to finish our destruction. Be patient.

Books @ Amazon
"If only he had used his genius for niceness, instead of Evil." M. Smart
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